1 00:00:05,575 --> 00:00:08,065 - Welcome to Thriving Your Love, a podcast 2 00:00:08,235 --> 00:00:11,425 where we will guide and help you improve your most 3 00:00:11,945 --> 00:00:13,345 precious relationships in life. 4 00:00:13,815 --> 00:00:15,265 This podcast is produced 5 00:00:15,285 --> 00:00:17,865 and hosted by certified emotionally focused therapist, 6 00:00:18,175 --> 00:00:20,785 Claudio Vargas Silva, licensed Marriage 7 00:00:20,785 --> 00:00:23,025 and Family Therapist, and Trisha Kim Walsh, 8 00:00:23,335 --> 00:00:25,425 also licensed marriage and family therapist. 9 00:00:26,575 --> 00:00:28,545 - Welcome back, viewers and listeners. 10 00:00:28,695 --> 00:00:30,345 It's Trish and Claudio. 11 00:00:30,565 --> 00:00:34,065 And today's topic is, is going 12 00:00:34,065 --> 00:00:36,425 to have us reflect very deeply. 13 00:00:36,645 --> 00:00:40,105 And Claudia, we just mentioned that this is probably a topic 14 00:00:40,495 --> 00:00:44,265 that we're gonna be talking on for a few episodes. 15 00:00:44,325 --> 00:00:48,465 And the, the name of our focus is how 16 00:00:48,485 --> 00:00:51,065 to understand a Narcissist Partner. 17 00:00:51,845 --> 00:00:53,385 So let's all take a deep breath. 18 00:00:54,505 --> 00:00:56,505 'cause when, and then let that breath out. 19 00:00:56,815 --> 00:01:00,145 Because when we think about narcissistic personalities, 20 00:01:00,695 --> 00:01:02,585 there's a lot of reactivity we have. 21 00:01:02,865 --> 00:01:06,345 I I, I've heard so many partners I've worked 22 00:01:06,345 --> 00:01:08,705 with an individual therapy come to me, Claudio, 23 00:01:08,725 --> 00:01:10,905 and say, I think I'm dating. 24 00:01:11,465 --> 00:01:13,945 I think I'm married to a narcissist. 25 00:01:14,645 --> 00:01:18,585 And then I know it's going to be an interesting session. 26 00:01:19,085 --> 00:01:21,505 So we are dedicating this time to talk about 27 00:01:21,605 --> 00:01:24,105 how do we understand this partner? 28 00:01:24,445 --> 00:01:27,065 And we wanna be mindful that we're not labeling, 29 00:01:27,065 --> 00:01:29,025 but we're again, trying to understand 30 00:01:29,655 --> 00:01:31,145 when you're in a relationship with someone 31 00:01:31,165 --> 00:01:34,265 who has these features, what do you do? 32 00:01:35,875 --> 00:01:37,495 - Yes, Tricia. And, 33 00:01:37,595 --> 00:01:42,335 and I wanna normalize, as you mentioned before, 34 00:01:42,635 --> 00:01:45,615 and I liked this, uh, this word normalizing 35 00:01:45,615 --> 00:01:49,135 because, uh, when we think about narcissism, 36 00:01:50,035 --> 00:01:52,535 we feel something kind of negative. 37 00:01:53,235 --> 00:01:57,495 No one wants to think that they are a narcissist. 38 00:01:59,045 --> 00:02:02,625 And we know that we have the pathological 39 00:02:03,715 --> 00:02:06,065 narcissism that we are gonna talk about later. 40 00:02:06,885 --> 00:02:10,865 But I want to, uh, normalize that 41 00:02:12,385 --> 00:02:14,905 everyone has a little bit of narcissism 42 00:02:15,735 --> 00:02:20,145 because, uh, if we think about a spectrum from 43 00:02:20,695 --> 00:02:25,365 zero to 100 with zero, you don't have any 44 00:02:26,135 --> 00:02:28,165 pride, any narcissism. 45 00:02:28,745 --> 00:02:31,165 You don't feel like you need to be. Right. 46 00:02:31,905 --> 00:02:34,365 You can listen to people, listen to their opinions, 47 00:02:34,365 --> 00:02:35,805 you can listen to feedback. 48 00:02:36,385 --> 00:02:39,405 You think you can take ownership of your mistakes. 49 00:02:40,875 --> 00:02:44,845 That would be like a, a perfect known narcissist. 50 00:02:44,945 --> 00:02:48,365 And then we think about a a hundred percent narcissist, 51 00:02:48,365 --> 00:02:51,925 someone that, that is really a pathological narcissist. 52 00:02:52,335 --> 00:02:53,405 There is no zero. 53 00:02:54,065 --> 00:02:56,805 All of us are in some point in this spectrum. 54 00:02:57,925 --> 00:03:00,365 I would like to talk about this with a lot of humility, 55 00:03:01,055 --> 00:03:04,365 acceptance towards people understanding 56 00:03:05,225 --> 00:03:06,925 not in a judgmental way. 57 00:03:07,665 --> 00:03:12,405 And the purpose of this is really to help couples 58 00:03:12,785 --> 00:03:16,685 to understand each other, to be more loving 59 00:03:17,625 --> 00:03:20,205 and empathic and compassionate. 60 00:03:20,385 --> 00:03:22,525 So that is the purpose, 61 00:03:23,385 --> 00:03:26,365 but not to diagnose someone 62 00:03:27,025 --> 00:03:30,165 and judge someone in a negative way. Trisha. 63 00:03:30,775 --> 00:03:32,645 - Right, right, Claudia? Yeah. 64 00:03:32,645 --> 00:03:36,445 Our efforts are that in a loving relationship, clearly 65 00:03:37,185 --> 00:03:40,685 we wanna name some of the reasons for why people 66 00:03:40,705 --> 00:03:44,045 who have narcissistic tendencies, including ourselves, 67 00:03:44,505 --> 00:03:45,885 can be people that we're drawn to. 68 00:03:46,225 --> 00:03:49,605 The most common trait I see is confidence is that someone 69 00:03:49,605 --> 00:03:51,165 who has narcissistic features 70 00:03:51,165 --> 00:03:54,405 or someone who could be charming and charismatic. 71 00:03:54,775 --> 00:03:58,805 These are often people that are in pow, powerful positions, 72 00:03:58,805 --> 00:04:01,925 whether that's in a company or even a political office. 73 00:04:02,595 --> 00:04:05,925 They could be even on a date, someone who seems 74 00:04:06,065 --> 00:04:08,605 as though they really have an understanding of 75 00:04:08,605 --> 00:04:10,085 who they are and what they want. 76 00:04:10,265 --> 00:04:13,805 And they're not at all hesitant to get what they want. 77 00:04:14,145 --> 00:04:17,445 And that may be you as a partner, which again, this is 78 00:04:17,445 --> 00:04:19,285 where my partners who I see individually 79 00:04:19,305 --> 00:04:21,725 and then eventually come into couples therapy to say, 80 00:04:22,245 --> 00:04:23,285 I didn't see this coming. 81 00:04:23,715 --> 00:04:24,885 They were so charming. 82 00:04:25,275 --> 00:04:28,045 They seemed like they were really invested in me. 83 00:04:28,345 --> 00:04:30,205 And then things started to change, 84 00:04:30,695 --> 00:04:33,565 where they seem more focused on their own needs. 85 00:04:33,565 --> 00:04:36,845 They're selfish, they're arrogant, they're controlling. 86 00:04:37,265 --> 00:04:39,765 At times I feel that they don't even care about 87 00:04:39,765 --> 00:04:41,405 what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling. 88 00:04:41,595 --> 00:04:43,125 It's always all about them. 89 00:04:43,985 --> 00:04:47,765 - And continuing this normalizing, uh, 90 00:04:47,885 --> 00:04:52,125 I even wanna mention that in my previous marriage, 91 00:04:52,685 --> 00:04:57,175 I had a lot of conflict with my first partner 92 00:04:57,945 --> 00:05:00,015 about my daughter because I thought 93 00:05:00,085 --> 00:05:02,535 that I knew everything about parenting. 94 00:05:03,015 --> 00:05:05,535 I thought that she was very soft with our daughter. 95 00:05:05,855 --> 00:05:09,335 I thought that we, we should be more authoritative. 96 00:05:10,635 --> 00:05:13,535 But actually, I didn't realize 97 00:05:14,005 --> 00:05:16,895 that I was becoming an authoritarian 98 00:05:17,485 --> 00:05:21,575 like my dad was with me and I didn't like, 99 00:05:22,515 --> 00:05:24,535 and I wanted to be different than my dad. 100 00:05:24,675 --> 00:05:28,775 But I ended up being like him until 101 00:05:29,485 --> 00:05:31,775 when I studied marriage and family therapy. 102 00:05:32,595 --> 00:05:36,375 And then I started reading books about parenting 103 00:05:36,915 --> 00:05:38,855 and also doing trainings. 104 00:05:39,275 --> 00:05:42,735 And then I realized, oh my goodness, I was wrong. 105 00:05:43,875 --> 00:05:48,055 And my ex-wife, actually, she was a better parent than, 106 00:05:48,085 --> 00:05:49,375 than I was at that point. 107 00:05:49,715 --> 00:05:54,015 And I remember that I talked to a supervisor 108 00:05:54,875 --> 00:05:58,655 and I said, you know, I, I think I am a narcissist. 109 00:05:59,755 --> 00:06:03,135 And then she told me, Claudio, you are not . 110 00:06:03,445 --> 00:06:05,695 Because the very fact that you're saying 111 00:06:05,725 --> 00:06:08,415 that you are a narcissist, that means you're not, 112 00:06:08,415 --> 00:06:12,895 because for a narcissist would be very hard 113 00:06:12,995 --> 00:06:17,095 to take ownership of something, to have the humility 114 00:06:18,155 --> 00:06:20,455 to accept that they have a problem. 115 00:06:21,115 --> 00:06:25,215 So we see the difference between we being, uh, 116 00:06:25,215 --> 00:06:28,295 having narcissism traits that all of us have. 117 00:06:28,365 --> 00:06:30,655 It's absolutely normal because we are human beings. 118 00:06:30,675 --> 00:06:32,495 And as I said, we wanna be right. 119 00:06:33,715 --> 00:06:35,855 Uh, we are competitive sometimes. 120 00:06:36,155 --> 00:06:38,335 And if we've, we have become defensive. 121 00:06:38,955 --> 00:06:41,895 And if we have opposite opinions, 122 00:06:41,995 --> 00:06:44,135 we always wanna prove our opinion. 123 00:06:44,555 --> 00:06:49,255 We wanna be right. We wanna fight for our needs to be met. 124 00:06:49,255 --> 00:06:51,535 And sometimes we don't realize 125 00:06:51,535 --> 00:06:53,855 that people have their needs as well. 126 00:06:54,525 --> 00:06:56,015 That might conflict with us. 127 00:06:56,365 --> 00:07:01,215 What my supervisor was meaning is that the very fact 128 00:07:01,365 --> 00:07:05,095 that I was wanting to look into myself 129 00:07:06,105 --> 00:07:09,765 and understand what was wrong with me 130 00:07:09,985 --> 00:07:14,845 and change that meant that I was not a narcissist. 131 00:07:15,385 --> 00:07:19,725 So we can already start to understand 132 00:07:20,465 --> 00:07:23,645 how we can change the dynamic in our relationships 133 00:07:24,785 --> 00:07:28,845 by being able to listen to our partner's opinion, 134 00:07:29,905 --> 00:07:33,685 to look into ourselves with humility 135 00:07:34,185 --> 00:07:36,325 and seeing what we need to change 136 00:07:36,465 --> 00:07:40,405 and how we can be more empathic, how we can listen better, 137 00:07:40,505 --> 00:07:44,205 how we can be more compassionate, how we can pay attention 138 00:07:44,745 --> 00:07:45,925 to our partner's needs. 139 00:07:46,105 --> 00:07:47,105 Trisha. 140 00:07:47,565 --> 00:07:50,085 - Hmm. Yes, Claudia, I really appreciate you 141 00:07:50,085 --> 00:07:52,325 for naming your own personal experience. 142 00:07:52,505 --> 00:07:56,125 And as we talk about this, I'm struck also by 143 00:07:56,985 --> 00:08:00,365 my own experience as a child growing up in a household 144 00:08:00,415 --> 00:08:03,525 where my father, uh, was Korean identified. 145 00:08:03,865 --> 00:08:05,405 Um, he's no longer with us anymore, 146 00:08:06,025 --> 00:08:09,645 but I do recognize something that we've not had the chance 147 00:08:09,645 --> 00:08:12,965 to talk about is that sometimes in certain upbringings 148 00:08:13,495 --> 00:08:16,365 there can be cultural factors into this. 149 00:08:16,585 --> 00:08:20,205 My father coming from a household himself where there was a, 150 00:08:20,285 --> 00:08:22,045 a bit of a patriarchal understanding of 151 00:08:22,045 --> 00:08:23,365 how children were raised. 152 00:08:23,825 --> 00:08:27,245 So my father could be very rigid and very critical of me, 153 00:08:27,505 --> 00:08:30,045 and it wasn't reflective of my internal experience. 154 00:08:30,345 --> 00:08:34,725 So what I found is, as I was dating, I was more drawn to men 155 00:08:34,725 --> 00:08:35,965 that were very confident 156 00:08:36,625 --> 00:08:40,045 and often had a certain level of confidence and control. 157 00:08:40,585 --> 00:08:43,965 And as I got to know myself, I realized 158 00:08:43,965 --> 00:08:45,405 that I wanted a balance. 159 00:08:46,005 --> 00:08:48,165 I wanted vulnerability and wanted empathy. 160 00:08:48,505 --> 00:08:51,405 But there was always a pool of the qualities 161 00:08:51,405 --> 00:08:52,565 that I found most attractive. 162 00:08:53,025 --> 00:08:55,045 And again, having such great respect for, 163 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,685 for my father from a cultural lens 164 00:08:56,705 --> 00:08:59,725 and being my father that I felt to be safe 165 00:08:59,785 --> 00:09:01,965 and to be loved was also to be controlled. 166 00:09:02,345 --> 00:09:04,405 And I see that some of those tendencies 167 00:09:04,505 --> 00:09:07,405 of my dad growing up in a household where he was told, 168 00:09:07,825 --> 00:09:12,605 you are the son, you know, you are, you are meant to be 169 00:09:13,445 --> 00:09:14,925 a caretaker to the family. 170 00:09:15,035 --> 00:09:18,245 That there were some narcissistic expectations placed on him 171 00:09:18,755 --> 00:09:21,485 that made him a difficult father to connect with. 172 00:09:21,745 --> 00:09:23,565 And the reason I'm mentioning this is that a lot 173 00:09:23,565 --> 00:09:26,645 of my clients like to ask, where does narcissism come from? 174 00:09:26,915 --> 00:09:28,725 They do some research, they go on Dr. 175 00:09:28,725 --> 00:09:30,605 Google, they try to make meaning, 176 00:09:30,605 --> 00:09:33,525 because often they say, I love this person. 177 00:09:33,845 --> 00:09:35,245 I wanna be in this relationship. 178 00:09:35,625 --> 00:09:38,565 But I feel that there's no room in the relationship for me. 179 00:09:38,945 --> 00:09:40,285 And I can really relate to that 180 00:09:40,285 --> 00:09:43,045 because there was a point in which when I was in a 181 00:09:43,045 --> 00:09:47,325 relationship that I would identify as dysfunctional, where I 182 00:09:47,915 --> 00:09:50,205 started to get controlling 183 00:09:51,035 --> 00:09:53,645 because as you said, Claudia, we're, we're all human. 184 00:09:54,025 --> 00:09:56,965 And so those narcissistic tendencies have kept us alive. 185 00:09:57,435 --> 00:10:00,485 It's what, how babies get the nourishment they 186 00:10:00,485 --> 00:10:01,565 need when they're crying. 187 00:10:01,635 --> 00:10:03,605 They're saying, I have a need. I'm hungry. 188 00:10:04,265 --> 00:10:05,445 I'm, I'm lonely, I'm tired. 189 00:10:05,545 --> 00:10:07,125 And then caretaker comes to them. 190 00:10:07,505 --> 00:10:11,645 But too much or too less can cause these traits to 191 00:10:12,385 --> 00:10:17,085 diagnostically that can lead to severe narcissism. 192 00:10:17,265 --> 00:10:20,365 You know, in this case, for me, um, I would say I think 193 00:10:20,365 --> 00:10:23,085 with therapy and the fact that you are a therapist 194 00:10:23,105 --> 00:10:25,965 and you've gone into therapy, these are many examples of 195 00:10:26,305 --> 00:10:28,245 how you can respond. 196 00:10:29,025 --> 00:10:30,565 If you in fact are a partner 197 00:10:30,595 --> 00:10:33,125 that recognizes you have narcissistic tendencies, 198 00:10:33,505 --> 00:10:35,405 or you are in a relationship with someone 199 00:10:35,425 --> 00:10:36,965 who has narcissistic tendencies, 200 00:10:37,035 --> 00:10:39,605 therapy can be a really powerful place 201 00:10:40,105 --> 00:10:41,445 to process and understand. 202 00:10:42,105 --> 00:10:43,125 How was your upbringing? 203 00:10:43,435 --> 00:10:46,485 What was it like in your relationship with your caretaker? 204 00:10:46,585 --> 00:10:48,125 And we've talked a lot about this, right? 205 00:10:48,155 --> 00:10:51,245 Claudio, we love talking about attachment theory. 206 00:10:51,585 --> 00:10:55,605 It helps us to understand the world that we came to know 207 00:10:56,145 --> 00:11:00,965 too much, too little often has its tendencies diagnostically 208 00:11:01,145 --> 00:11:04,325 to lead into present day challenges in a 209 00:11:04,325 --> 00:11:05,405 loving relationship. 210 00:11:06,895 --> 00:11:09,755 - Yes, Trisha. And it was good that you pointed out to 211 00:11:10,775 --> 00:11:12,035 the way we are raised 212 00:11:13,055 --> 00:11:17,635 and how it can affect us being raised by someone 213 00:11:17,945 --> 00:11:22,035 with narcissism or narcissist tendencies. 214 00:11:22,615 --> 00:11:24,515 And what I have seen, 215 00:11:25,415 --> 00:11:29,515 and by the way, I had a girlfriend that I believe that 216 00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:31,995 she was a narcissist. 217 00:11:32,695 --> 00:11:36,475 And she said that she suffered a lot in her childhood. Hmm. 218 00:11:36,735 --> 00:11:38,835 She had a very traumatic childhood. 219 00:11:39,695 --> 00:11:42,275 She couldn't tell me actually what happened, 220 00:11:42,475 --> 00:11:46,455 because for her would be very painful for her 221 00:11:46,755 --> 00:11:48,055 to talk to me 222 00:11:48,055 --> 00:11:49,775 and tell me what had happened 223 00:11:50,305 --> 00:11:52,175 would be in some way very humiliating 224 00:11:52,715 --> 00:11:56,045 and would be very painful, would be very vulnerable as well. 225 00:11:56,745 --> 00:11:58,125 So she didn't wanna mention, 226 00:11:58,865 --> 00:12:03,725 but it helped me to have some acceptance, understanding, 227 00:12:03,905 --> 00:12:05,165 and even compassion. 228 00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:08,445 Hmm. Because when you feel heard 229 00:12:09,265 --> 00:12:14,005 by a narcissist person, it's very, very hard. 230 00:12:14,905 --> 00:12:18,445 You, you can feel extremely hurt 231 00:12:19,385 --> 00:12:22,325 and angry and resentful. 232 00:12:23,185 --> 00:12:26,805 But what helps you is to see that 233 00:12:27,785 --> 00:12:32,205 behind all that appearance of pride 234 00:12:33,115 --> 00:12:36,845 control, they someone who feels so weak 235 00:12:37,825 --> 00:12:38,965 and so fragile. 236 00:12:39,765 --> 00:12:42,285 Hmm. And what happens is that 237 00:12:43,115 --> 00:12:45,245 this person is a born leader. 238 00:12:45,965 --> 00:12:50,165 Hmm. This person has the ability, you know, 239 00:12:50,185 --> 00:12:53,645 the capacities to be a leader, but 240 00:12:53,645 --> 00:12:56,805 because of the trauma that the person suffered, 241 00:12:57,905 --> 00:13:01,125 the person had to become a more assertive 242 00:13:01,795 --> 00:13:03,285 than they naturally are 243 00:13:03,285 --> 00:13:06,525 because they leader is by nature assertive. 244 00:13:07,425 --> 00:13:11,445 But as they feel so put down, so humiliated, 245 00:13:12,915 --> 00:13:16,605 then they try to be assertive to show 246 00:13:17,255 --> 00:13:19,085 force, to show power. 247 00:13:19,865 --> 00:13:21,325 And they go over the board. 248 00:13:22,385 --> 00:13:27,085 And what is interesting is that when we see them from the 249 00:13:27,085 --> 00:13:29,165 outside, we see confidence. 250 00:13:29,585 --> 00:13:31,405 Mm-Hmm. , we see pride. 251 00:13:32,345 --> 00:13:36,845 We don't know that in the inside they feel very weak. 252 00:13:37,525 --> 00:13:40,365 Hmm. They are always thinking 253 00:13:40,715 --> 00:13:42,965 that we want to put them down. 254 00:13:43,375 --> 00:13:48,045 Right. We want to humiliate ridicule them. Yes. 255 00:13:48,195 --> 00:13:50,565 Because that's what happened in their childhood. 256 00:13:51,665 --> 00:13:53,365 And they carry that image. 257 00:13:53,435 --> 00:13:57,285 They think people want to put me down, people want 258 00:13:57,285 --> 00:13:58,325 to control me. 259 00:13:58,615 --> 00:14:02,245 Right? People want to show off that they are better than me, 260 00:14:02,565 --> 00:14:07,325 but I'm gonna prove to them that I am better than they are. 261 00:14:07,685 --> 00:14:11,925 I want to prove that I am not, you know, someone, 262 00:14:12,035 --> 00:14:15,645 that they were gonna step down, step all over me. 263 00:14:16,065 --> 00:14:19,725 I'm gonna prove to them my authority, my power, 264 00:14:20,625 --> 00:14:22,405 I'm gonna assert myself. 265 00:14:23,685 --> 00:14:25,265 And then they don't realize 266 00:14:26,295 --> 00:14:28,345 that they are becoming controlling. 267 00:14:28,895 --> 00:14:30,865 They are becoming authoritarian. 268 00:14:30,895 --> 00:14:32,265 They're becoming very selfish. 269 00:14:32,925 --> 00:14:33,985 And it's so hard 270 00:14:33,985 --> 00:14:38,945 because you want to tell them, yes, want 271 00:14:38,965 --> 00:14:43,345 to show them what they are doing, how pr proud 272 00:14:44,055 --> 00:14:47,185 they are, how authoritarian, how controlling. 273 00:14:47,655 --> 00:14:50,785 When you do that, they feel attacked. 274 00:14:50,805 --> 00:14:55,405 It confirms to them, oh, here they are trying 275 00:14:55,465 --> 00:14:58,245 to put me down, but they're, they're not gonna put me down. 276 00:14:58,785 --> 00:15:00,085 I'm gonna show who they are. 277 00:15:00,385 --> 00:15:03,885 So it's so hard to have that relationship 278 00:15:03,885 --> 00:15:08,125 because it pulls us towards that position 279 00:15:08,555 --> 00:15:10,365 that we wanna compete with them. 280 00:15:10,385 --> 00:15:12,165 We wanna show what they are doing. 281 00:15:12,225 --> 00:15:14,565 And when we do that, it confirms to them 282 00:15:14,565 --> 00:15:16,205 that we really wanna put them down. 283 00:15:16,665 --> 00:15:19,565 And then we enter in this cycle. 284 00:15:19,985 --> 00:15:23,485 And when we are into this cycle, it's 285 00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:25,365 so hard to get out. 286 00:15:25,665 --> 00:15:30,365 And by the way, this cycle that is created, there is 287 00:15:30,425 --> 00:15:33,885 so much force ruling us 288 00:15:34,755 --> 00:15:36,125 towards that cycle. 289 00:15:36,825 --> 00:15:41,045 You know, because we, we feel this person is trying 290 00:15:41,045 --> 00:15:43,525 to control me, is trying to humiliate me. 291 00:15:44,545 --> 00:15:48,325 I'm not gonna accept that. So we become defensive. 292 00:15:48,625 --> 00:15:51,125 And when we try to prove who we are, 293 00:15:51,225 --> 00:15:55,325 and we try to defend ourselves, we are in the cycle. 294 00:15:56,365 --> 00:15:57,545 We are in the cycle. 295 00:15:58,125 --> 00:15:59,545 And it's so hard because 296 00:16:00,415 --> 00:16:02,865 that cycle is not gonna take us anywhere. 297 00:16:02,865 --> 00:16:06,705 Because the more we try to prove who we are 298 00:16:06,805 --> 00:16:11,425 and defend ourselves, it just confirms to the other person 299 00:16:12,295 --> 00:16:14,945 that we are really trying to put them down. 300 00:16:15,165 --> 00:16:18,345 We are not really, uh, acknowledging them 301 00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:19,585 and respecting them. 302 00:16:20,365 --> 00:16:21,425 So, uh, 303 00:16:21,425 --> 00:16:24,105 but the, what I wanna say is really 304 00:16:24,405 --> 00:16:26,465 how it starts there in childhood. 305 00:16:26,885 --> 00:16:28,945 How the person has suffered so much, 306 00:16:29,765 --> 00:16:31,545 how we can have compassion 307 00:16:32,045 --> 00:16:34,705 and understanding towards the person 308 00:16:35,245 --> 00:16:37,065 and towards ourselves as well. 309 00:16:37,065 --> 00:16:41,345 Because as I was mentioning, all of us have some narcissism. 310 00:16:41,685 --> 00:16:45,865 Us and, and also as you were mentioning now, Trisha, 311 00:16:45,865 --> 00:16:48,105 how you suffered in your, in your childhood. 312 00:16:48,725 --> 00:16:50,225 And it was the same with me 313 00:16:50,225 --> 00:16:55,065 because my dad, he had that machismo, a Latino, 314 00:16:55,965 --> 00:17:00,345 he thought that being a father meant to have authority. 315 00:17:01,205 --> 00:17:06,025 And, and if I was in pain, if I was crying for something, 316 00:17:06,085 --> 00:17:09,145 asking for something who he would have with his authority 317 00:17:09,765 --> 00:17:13,145 and try to stop me because I was just spoiled. 318 00:17:13,805 --> 00:17:18,705 And then he had to come with his authority to stop my 319 00:17:19,395 --> 00:17:21,545 being spoiled, you know? 320 00:17:21,645 --> 00:17:24,065 But he didn't realize that he was 321 00:17:24,575 --> 00:17:28,465 just not really being empathic and compassionate towards me 322 00:17:29,005 --> 00:17:33,665 and just, uh, in, in some way I was learning with him 323 00:17:34,325 --> 00:17:37,105 to be authoritarian as well as I did 324 00:17:37,105 --> 00:17:38,505 with my daughter Tricia, 325 00:17:39,155 --> 00:17:40,155 - Right? 326 00:17:40,155 --> 00:17:41,385 As you're talking about this, Claudio. 327 00:17:41,405 --> 00:17:42,945 And we said we knew 328 00:17:42,945 --> 00:17:45,945 that this would lead into multiple episodes of us talking 329 00:17:46,475 --> 00:17:49,285 about a subject that affects every single one 330 00:17:49,285 --> 00:17:53,005 of our listeners and viewers, no doubt is I also am struck 331 00:17:53,065 --> 00:17:57,125 by us being in a system in the world where we put a lot 332 00:17:57,125 --> 00:18:01,885 of emphasis on confidence and triumph and achievements 333 00:18:02,425 --> 00:18:05,765 and being on top, being first place, getting the gold medal 334 00:18:06,355 --> 00:18:09,085 that we do look for perfection. 335 00:18:09,345 --> 00:18:12,205 We do live in a world that wants to obtain 336 00:18:12,205 --> 00:18:13,725 that which we cannot achieve. 337 00:18:13,795 --> 00:18:18,055 None of us are perfect. And the qualities 338 00:18:18,055 --> 00:18:20,455 and traits of a narcissistic personality 339 00:18:20,715 --> 00:18:24,775 or someone who is in a world that rewards this, 340 00:18:25,395 --> 00:18:28,095 it makes sense that likely you 341 00:18:28,355 --> 00:18:29,375 and myself as well 342 00:18:29,375 --> 00:18:32,175 as our viewers have been in a relationship. 343 00:18:32,175 --> 00:18:34,095 Whether it's a romantic partnership 344 00:18:34,095 --> 00:18:37,175 or someone you may have as a manager, you may have someone 345 00:18:37,235 --> 00:18:39,095 as a, as a part, as as a parent, 346 00:18:39,235 --> 00:18:42,135 the world really does reward those people. 347 00:18:42,155 --> 00:18:44,215 And that would maybe, you know, I'm gonna be careful 348 00:18:44,215 --> 00:18:46,335 with this not to get too political, Claudio, 349 00:18:46,605 --> 00:18:48,415 that we do put the highest level 350 00:18:48,435 --> 00:18:50,495 of responsibility politicians 351 00:18:51,125 --> 00:18:52,775 with these kinds of personalities. 352 00:18:53,355 --> 00:18:55,495 So just as a reminder, this is where a lot 353 00:18:55,495 --> 00:18:57,295 of my clients say, I didn't see it coming. 354 00:18:58,195 --> 00:19:00,935 The relationship went so well. Where did it go wrong? 355 00:19:01,645 --> 00:19:04,855 Well, that which we really celebrate. 356 00:19:05,035 --> 00:19:08,215 We also have to name the other qualities that are just 357 00:19:08,215 --> 00:19:09,295 as important we'll speak 358 00:19:09,295 --> 00:19:11,695 to in our next episode is compassion, 359 00:19:12,005 --> 00:19:14,095 vulnerability, empathy. 360 00:19:14,595 --> 00:19:18,175 And if someone is so focused on their own achievements, 361 00:19:18,445 --> 00:19:20,415 they're not willing to make mistakes, 362 00:19:20,415 --> 00:19:23,695 which actually helps us to be more successful, going 363 00:19:23,695 --> 00:19:25,415 to therapy and saying, I need help, 364 00:19:25,985 --> 00:19:28,695 makes you an incredibly brave, courageous person. 365 00:19:29,395 --> 00:19:33,135 But to your, your supervisor's point, Claudia, when she said 366 00:19:33,475 --> 00:19:36,055 by the very physician, you saying you, 367 00:19:36,195 --> 00:19:38,695 you thought you might have narcissism indicated to you 368 00:19:38,965 --> 00:19:41,255 that this was not a narcissistic trait 369 00:19:41,285 --> 00:19:42,855 because you were being vulnerable 370 00:19:43,195 --> 00:19:45,775 and you were being empathic to say, I've created harm 371 00:19:45,915 --> 00:19:48,095 and I wanna understand how to do better. 372 00:19:48,675 --> 00:19:52,455 That's what it means to be human in a world that's flawed 373 00:19:52,795 --> 00:19:55,055 and a world where we have to make mistakes in order to grow. 374 00:19:55,435 --> 00:19:57,095 And that's what this episode is about, is 375 00:19:57,935 --> 00:19:59,135 continue tuning in. 376 00:19:59,355 --> 00:20:01,895 We have more to share with you in just a little bit. 377 00:20:01,995 --> 00:20:03,775 Thanks for following with us, everyone. 378 00:20:03,835 --> 00:20:05,895 We can't wait to continue this 379 00:20:05,965 --> 00:20:07,575 very stimulating conversation. 380 00:20:08,435 --> 00:20:10,735 - Yes. See you at the next episode. , 381 00:20:11,585 --> 00:20:13,895 - Thank you so much for tuning in with us today. 382 00:20:14,315 --> 00:20:17,295 We hope you'll join us soon again for our next episode of 383 00:20:17,855 --> 00:20:18,855 Thriving Your Love.