1 00:00:00,705 --> 00:00:00,745 - 2 00:00:07,765 --> 00:00:09,665 - Hi, I am Tom Sheridan of Sheridan training. 3 00:00:10,485 --> 00:00:13,385 Anyone who's been involved in successful change management 4 00:00:13,385 --> 00:00:16,945 will tell you that their success depends on a great story, 5 00:00:17,525 --> 00:00:20,945 and that story has to be crystal clear on the who, what, 6 00:00:20,945 --> 00:00:21,985 when, where, and why. 7 00:00:22,375 --> 00:00:24,265 That story has to be easily repeatable, 8 00:00:24,805 --> 00:00:27,745 and that story needs to tap into the emotions 9 00:00:27,805 --> 00:00:31,145 of those affected by or who are driving the change. 10 00:00:32,505 --> 00:00:35,505 I have an idea why not use regular video updates 11 00:00:35,505 --> 00:00:36,705 to report on progress 12 00:00:37,405 --> 00:00:38,705 and share people's stories 13 00:00:39,045 --> 00:00:41,985 as they experience the change in progress and success. 14 00:00:42,885 --> 00:00:44,625 You can use your phone or camera 15 00:00:44,965 --> 00:00:46,545 and post the stories for the company, 16 00:00:46,845 --> 00:00:48,545 but if you really wanna up your game 17 00:00:48,685 --> 00:00:50,545 and shoot like a pro, listen 18 00:00:50,605 --> 00:00:53,905 to this advice from Steve De Group six time Emmy winning 19 00:00:53,915 --> 00:00:55,265 owner of Dutch Productions. 20 00:00:55,735 --> 00:00:57,825 Steve's gonna talk you through his thought process 21 00:00:58,285 --> 00:01:01,465 for capturing the emotions and sizzle for your stories, 22 00:01:02,125 --> 00:01:04,225 and that will keep people motivated. 23 00:01:08,075 --> 00:01:09,695 So Steve, thanks for joining us today. 24 00:01:09,815 --> 00:01:11,615 I really appreciate you giving us your time. 25 00:01:12,225 --> 00:01:14,335 - Happy to be here. Thank you, Tom. So, 26 00:01:14,335 --> 00:01:17,495 - Steve, this is not the first time we've had a conversation 27 00:01:18,105 --> 00:01:19,975 about, uh, visual storytelling. 28 00:01:20,235 --> 00:01:21,935 And, and one of the terms that you, 29 00:01:22,115 --> 00:01:25,295 you mentioned in our conversations in the past is story arc. 30 00:01:25,835 --> 00:01:28,175 So I think I understand story arc, 31 00:01:28,175 --> 00:01:29,735 but what do you mean by story arc? 32 00:01:30,525 --> 00:01:34,015 - Well, uh, story arc is a, is a phrase that's, uh, been 33 00:01:34,015 --> 00:01:35,055 around for a long time, 34 00:01:35,115 --> 00:01:38,335 and it applies to the ways that you write stories, 35 00:01:38,505 --> 00:01:40,215 write movies, screenplays, 36 00:01:41,035 --> 00:01:43,055 and do the same thing in the visual arts. 37 00:01:43,395 --> 00:01:48,235 Uh, whether you're cutting a spot, uh, or a feature 38 00:01:48,495 --> 00:01:52,035 or a documentary, long form, short form, it doesn't matter. 39 00:01:52,055 --> 00:01:55,115 You, you're, you need to take people on a journey. 40 00:01:56,055 --> 00:01:59,075 And, um, so it's important that you are, 41 00:01:59,775 --> 00:02:02,835 you set up a dilemma or the cliffhanger 42 00:02:02,835 --> 00:02:04,395 and dangle a carrot at the top, 43 00:02:04,935 --> 00:02:07,035 and then tell people the story that leads up 44 00:02:07,035 --> 00:02:10,585 to a climactic moment and then a resolution. 45 00:02:10,965 --> 00:02:14,105 So everything that we try to do when we're trying 46 00:02:14,105 --> 00:02:17,585 to tell a story, uh, has that pronounced arc. 47 00:02:17,585 --> 00:02:21,555 And, and the viewer understands right from the beginning 48 00:02:21,625 --> 00:02:24,235 that they are on that journey, that, 49 00:02:24,535 --> 00:02:25,835 and following that story, 50 00:02:25,895 --> 00:02:28,115 and they're gonna, that is what driving them 51 00:02:28,115 --> 00:02:29,475 to continue to watch. 52 00:02:30,335 --> 00:02:31,435 And that's so important. 53 00:02:32,945 --> 00:02:35,325 - How do you bring a story to life? 54 00:02:35,385 --> 00:02:39,005 Can you just tell me, uh, a day in the life, uh, of, 55 00:02:39,065 --> 00:02:42,085 of a production and, and how you get started and, and, 56 00:02:42,085 --> 00:02:44,645 and where you start from and how you create that roadmap? 57 00:02:46,685 --> 00:02:49,015 - Well, I, I think it depends on the type of project 58 00:02:49,015 --> 00:02:50,055 that you're working on. 59 00:02:50,115 --> 00:02:51,855 But if you're working with a client, 60 00:02:52,075 --> 00:02:55,975 the most important thing that we can do at the start is 61 00:02:55,975 --> 00:02:59,285 to listen and listen to what the messages that they want 62 00:02:59,285 --> 00:03:03,895 to relay, uh, the themes that they want to hit on, um, 63 00:03:04,475 --> 00:03:08,455 and, and listen to the words that they use in describing 64 00:03:08,525 --> 00:03:09,855 what they are doing. 65 00:03:09,855 --> 00:03:12,735 Whether they're selling a product, selling a service, 66 00:03:13,375 --> 00:03:16,655 highlighting an event, whatever that is, 67 00:03:17,585 --> 00:03:20,775 completely immerse yourself from their point of view so 68 00:03:20,775 --> 00:03:23,415 that you're not coming back to them with creative 69 00:03:23,445 --> 00:03:25,455 that doesn't make sense to where they're going. 70 00:03:26,215 --> 00:03:28,985 From there. If we're telling a story, we need to figure out 71 00:03:29,005 --> 00:03:31,785 who we're going to help us tell that story, 72 00:03:31,785 --> 00:03:33,425 and who are the people that have the authority 73 00:03:33,425 --> 00:03:36,225 to tell the story in the correct way. 74 00:03:37,075 --> 00:03:39,815 And so, if we're gonna do a series of interviews, uh, 75 00:03:39,915 --> 00:03:44,375 for a longer form piece, we, we, we write up that list 76 00:03:44,375 --> 00:03:48,055 of people, we reach out to those people or their people 77 00:03:48,635 --> 00:03:50,695 and, uh, put together an interview schedule 78 00:03:50,795 --> 00:03:54,855 and a shoot schedule where we can execute those interviews, 79 00:03:55,515 --> 00:03:59,975 uh, all the while analyzing the kinds of support materials 80 00:03:59,975 --> 00:04:01,935 that we'll need to help tell that story, 81 00:04:02,405 --> 00:04:04,215 whether it's archival footage 82 00:04:04,835 --> 00:04:09,815 or new shooting of new scenic shots, establishing shots, um, 83 00:04:10,385 --> 00:04:12,815 shots of technology, any, anything that applies 84 00:04:13,195 --> 00:04:16,495 to the stories, will there be animations that are needed 85 00:04:16,705 --> 00:04:19,575 where there'll be recreations that we need to shoot? 86 00:04:20,115 --> 00:04:23,615 So there's a lot of things that might go into play in, 87 00:04:23,915 --> 00:04:25,375 in telling that story, 88 00:04:26,035 --> 00:04:29,495 but it's, it's most important to, from the start, to listen 89 00:04:29,495 --> 00:04:31,015 to the client and, 90 00:04:31,075 --> 00:04:34,295 and then organize around that as you lay out 91 00:04:34,355 --> 00:04:36,455 how story's gonna be told in their words, 92 00:04:36,555 --> 00:04:37,815 but with your creativity. 93 00:04:39,085 --> 00:04:41,865 - So if I'm kicking off a campaign, what's, 94 00:04:42,005 --> 00:04:43,425 how do I start that story? 95 00:04:44,005 --> 00:04:45,985 What's the first thing I, I've gotta start with? 96 00:04:46,185 --> 00:04:47,145 'cause I would assume you'd have to get 97 00:04:47,145 --> 00:04:48,025 their attention right away. 98 00:04:48,965 --> 00:04:50,295 - Well, not only would you want 99 00:04:50,295 --> 00:04:52,335 to get their attention right, right away, 100 00:04:52,435 --> 00:04:55,535 but you also want to have a sense of reassurance, 101 00:04:55,695 --> 00:04:57,215 I would think, to that audience. 102 00:04:58,245 --> 00:05:00,655 That there's a place for everyone 103 00:05:01,435 --> 00:05:03,295 in our new plan to move ahead. 104 00:05:03,675 --> 00:05:07,495 And, and then I think enticing them with that new direction, 105 00:05:08,165 --> 00:05:11,615 that new technology, technology, the opportunity to learn 106 00:05:11,615 --> 00:05:16,535 and grow, uh, all those things would have to be teased 107 00:05:16,535 --> 00:05:17,815 because you're about to hear, 108 00:05:18,055 --> 00:05:20,775 I would assume more about it in the, 109 00:05:20,795 --> 00:05:22,295 in the overall presentation. 110 00:05:23,055 --> 00:05:25,295 I mean, those pieces are tend to be very short. 111 00:05:25,295 --> 00:05:26,895 They're like a minute, a minute and a half. 112 00:05:27,875 --> 00:05:31,095 And by the time of that close of those 90 seconds, 113 00:05:31,615 --> 00:05:34,775 everyone in the audience should be really pumped 114 00:05:34,775 --> 00:05:36,695 that they're there and part of this 115 00:05:37,275 --> 00:05:39,485 company as they move forward. 116 00:05:40,425 --> 00:05:42,005 - How do you bring the story to life? 117 00:05:42,005 --> 00:05:45,645 Because I noticed in a lot of your pieces, uh, 118 00:05:45,975 --> 00:05:48,245 there are narratives by the people involved. 119 00:05:49,315 --> 00:05:53,765 - Well, we specialize in non-scripted series generally. 120 00:05:53,945 --> 00:05:57,445 So we use that in everything that we do, 121 00:05:57,445 --> 00:05:59,965 whether we're doing a short form piece 122 00:06:00,025 --> 00:06:02,835 or a, uh, even a spot. 123 00:06:03,675 --> 00:06:05,355 Although spots are generally scripted. 124 00:06:06,605 --> 00:06:08,945 We focus on human stories 125 00:06:09,175 --> 00:06:11,985 that people tell in the first person ideally. 126 00:06:12,725 --> 00:06:16,265 And we try to connect people, products, 127 00:06:16,485 --> 00:06:21,345 and services through those human stories, whether it's, 128 00:06:21,485 --> 00:06:23,745 um, in the medical field 129 00:06:23,805 --> 00:06:27,775 and they're touting a, a new drug with new benefits, 130 00:06:28,355 --> 00:06:31,335 or it's just a, a story about a nonprofit 131 00:06:31,445 --> 00:06:32,815 that has changed their lives. 132 00:06:33,075 --> 00:06:37,745 So we try to get in front of people who have been impacted 133 00:06:37,845 --> 00:06:40,545 by these products and these services and these nonprofits, 134 00:06:40,845 --> 00:06:44,225 and have them tell their heartfelt, 135 00:06:44,555 --> 00:06:48,185 often moving emotional stories in the first person. 136 00:06:49,165 --> 00:06:52,705 Let them think as they're talking on camera, that it's just 137 00:06:53,285 --> 00:06:55,505 me and them talking to each other, 138 00:06:55,565 --> 00:06:56,625 and we're, we're talking 139 00:06:56,625 --> 00:06:58,785 to each other in a very personal way. 140 00:06:58,785 --> 00:07:01,585 We kind of forget that there's camera and lights all around. 141 00:07:02,655 --> 00:07:06,275 And I try to ask as, as an interviewer 142 00:07:07,275 --> 00:07:09,035 questions in a very simplified way. 143 00:07:09,495 --> 00:07:12,555 And interviewers often make the mistake of 144 00:07:13,555 --> 00:07:14,975 asking long questions 145 00:07:15,075 --> 00:07:18,775 and even sometimes trying to impress the interviewee with 146 00:07:18,775 --> 00:07:20,215 how much they know about a topic. 147 00:07:21,035 --> 00:07:23,775 And that's exactly what you don't wanna do, 148 00:07:23,775 --> 00:07:28,535 because then the interviewee doesn't feel the need to spill 149 00:07:28,535 --> 00:07:29,815 that back to you. 150 00:07:30,195 --> 00:07:33,095 And as an interviewer, you're trying to get people 151 00:07:33,235 --> 00:07:35,975 to tell the complete story, the whole story, 152 00:07:36,485 --> 00:07:40,295 fill in the blanks, and eventually immerse themselves in 153 00:07:40,295 --> 00:07:44,135 that moment again, that they retell with emotion, heartfelt. 154 00:07:44,135 --> 00:07:46,015 You can hear it in their voice, you see it in their eyes 155 00:07:46,045 --> 00:07:50,055 sometimes, obviously truly just crying 156 00:07:50,055 --> 00:07:54,135 or laughing on camera and, and showing those emotions. 157 00:07:54,195 --> 00:07:55,815 And, and that's when you really know 158 00:07:55,835 --> 00:07:56,935 you have gold on camera. 159 00:07:57,845 --> 00:07:59,345 - How should I prep them for that interview? 160 00:07:59,505 --> 00:08:02,625 I mean, clearly they need to know why I am coming 161 00:08:02,685 --> 00:08:04,225 and pointing a camera in their direction. 162 00:08:04,225 --> 00:08:06,585 Right? What, how do you prep for those talks? Y 163 00:08:06,855 --> 00:08:10,665 - Yeah, I, I mean, I like to certainly give people 164 00:08:10,775 --> 00:08:13,385 that I'm going to interview an overview of 165 00:08:13,385 --> 00:08:14,785 what we're talking about so 166 00:08:14,785 --> 00:08:16,625 that they're in the right head space. 167 00:08:17,205 --> 00:08:19,505 But I don't want to give too much away. 168 00:08:20,625 --> 00:08:22,225 I don't want to a, I don't want 169 00:08:22,225 --> 00:08:23,665 to send them questions beforehand. 170 00:08:24,545 --> 00:08:27,325 I have rarely found that has worked. 171 00:08:28,355 --> 00:08:32,375 And often I've had clients that I work with, so they're, 172 00:08:32,445 --> 00:08:34,815 they're the ones who are gathering the people I'll be 173 00:08:34,815 --> 00:08:39,545 interviewing, and I will submit questions to my client, 174 00:08:39,845 --> 00:08:42,185 but I will ask them not to send the questions 175 00:08:42,185 --> 00:08:44,105 to the interviewee. 176 00:08:45,355 --> 00:08:47,855 And sometimes they don't listen to me. 177 00:08:48,655 --> 00:08:50,595 So I'll get in with the interview 178 00:08:52,005 --> 00:08:54,225 and I'll start going through the questions. 179 00:08:55,145 --> 00:08:56,645 And the questions are just a guide, 180 00:08:56,675 --> 00:08:59,485 because you don't wanna be tied to your questions, 181 00:09:00,025 --> 00:09:02,165 and you want to be constantly looking 182 00:09:03,065 --> 00:09:06,205 at the person you're interviewing rather than your notes. 183 00:09:06,505 --> 00:09:09,765 You wanna make sure that they see your eyes glued to them. 184 00:09:10,935 --> 00:09:14,435 And when I interview someone who's already seen the 185 00:09:14,595 --> 00:09:17,475 questions, they tend to wanna recite their answers, 186 00:09:18,695 --> 00:09:22,315 and they're more, their mind is more focused on, 187 00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:25,315 what did I write rather than, what should I say? 188 00:09:26,555 --> 00:09:31,295 So at times, I have thrown them a curve ball 189 00:09:31,635 --> 00:09:33,375 by throwing out my questions 190 00:09:34,595 --> 00:09:38,895 and try to just ask other questions off of what they say. 191 00:09:39,805 --> 00:09:43,465 And it tends to get them to be a little bit more relaxed 192 00:09:43,805 --> 00:09:46,545 and then answer the questions from their 193 00:09:46,545 --> 00:09:48,895 heart once in a while. 194 00:09:49,315 --> 00:09:50,895 If I, if there's an important question 195 00:09:50,895 --> 00:09:53,695 that I have written out beforehand and I know their answer, 196 00:09:54,115 --> 00:09:57,845 or I, I know that they prepared an answer, I will just say, 197 00:09:57,845 --> 00:10:00,085 well, go ahead, pick up your piece of paper 198 00:10:00,905 --> 00:10:02,445 and read me your answer. 199 00:10:03,185 --> 00:10:07,565 And if they do it smoothly enough, I'll use that anyway. 200 00:10:07,955 --> 00:10:12,025 It's still their words, but I'll of course, we'll have 201 00:10:12,025 --> 00:10:14,265 to cover the whole section with B roll 202 00:10:14,325 --> 00:10:15,625 or other shots, obviously. 203 00:10:15,805 --> 00:10:19,785 So it's just a smarter move, not to share your questions, 204 00:10:20,165 --> 00:10:24,145 but I, I do prep them in terms of telling them, you know, 205 00:10:24,245 --> 00:10:28,365 I'm going to ask you about these difficult moments 206 00:10:28,665 --> 00:10:32,645 or this, that great moment that you experienced, 207 00:10:33,505 --> 00:10:37,305 and so that they know that that's where we're going. 208 00:10:37,365 --> 00:10:38,825 And that's the whole point of the story. 209 00:10:38,825 --> 00:10:40,665 They're not, I don't wanna surprise people 210 00:10:41,115 --> 00:10:44,625 where I might come off as being disingenuous and, 211 00:10:44,645 --> 00:10:47,025 and manipulative with their life 212 00:10:48,695 --> 00:10:50,385 - Suppose or just having a bad day. 213 00:10:50,965 --> 00:10:53,905 Uh, and, and they're trying to engineer the answers, 214 00:10:54,365 --> 00:10:56,145 uh, a little too much. 215 00:10:57,005 --> 00:10:59,505 How do you get them to rethink it? 216 00:10:59,505 --> 00:11:00,945 Or how do you, do you take a break? 217 00:11:01,205 --> 00:11:02,865 Do you tell 'em to take a breath? 218 00:11:02,885 --> 00:11:04,985 And, and, and there's risk there involved too, right? 219 00:11:04,985 --> 00:11:07,025 Because all of a sudden they may think, oh, 220 00:11:07,165 --> 00:11:08,305 it doesn't like what I'm doing. 221 00:11:09,655 --> 00:11:12,945 - Well, sometimes you, you meet people that aren't used 222 00:11:12,945 --> 00:11:16,585 to telling stories, but in our business, we're editing. 223 00:11:16,885 --> 00:11:18,945 So in the edit room, you can, 224 00:11:19,285 --> 00:11:23,675 you can move the order in which they say things 225 00:11:24,695 --> 00:11:26,995 and it enhances the story. 226 00:11:28,225 --> 00:11:31,645 So I might, it's not unusual for me to find something 227 00:11:31,645 --> 00:11:34,285 that someone said at the end of their interview 228 00:11:35,075 --> 00:11:37,325 that is actually the perfect setup 229 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:40,155 to start their story. 230 00:11:41,055 --> 00:11:43,755 So as long as we know that we have that freedom and power, 231 00:11:44,615 --> 00:11:47,835 and we stick to the integrity of the story, 232 00:11:48,005 --> 00:11:50,595 we're not manipulating their words to say something. 233 00:11:50,595 --> 00:11:54,925 They're not saying we can present their story in a more 234 00:11:54,925 --> 00:11:57,365 effective way than maybe they did live. 235 00:11:57,625 --> 00:11:59,725 That's the beauty of what we're doing right now, 236 00:11:59,895 --> 00:12:02,365 where you're gonna edit me to make me sound good. 237 00:12:03,285 --> 00:12:06,805 I am always working to edit, uh, my pieces 238 00:12:06,855 --> 00:12:09,885 where my people will sound the most concise, 239 00:12:10,905 --> 00:12:13,645 the most creative, the most emotional, 240 00:12:14,225 --> 00:12:16,765 and the most attention grabbing, so 241 00:12:16,765 --> 00:12:19,285 that when I hear a line at the front of the piece 242 00:12:19,475 --> 00:12:23,445 that actually sets up the whole story, then I know 243 00:12:23,445 --> 00:12:25,885 that I'm more effectively telling that story. 244 00:12:26,105 --> 00:12:29,165 And that's really what our job is in post-production. 245 00:12:30,865 --> 00:12:31,925 - So that leads me 246 00:12:31,945 --> 00:12:34,645 to another question about the different phases 247 00:12:34,945 --> 00:12:38,805 of storytelling, which is pre-production, uh, production 248 00:12:38,805 --> 00:12:39,885 and post-production. 249 00:12:41,025 --> 00:12:44,125 But what are some of the, the checklist mentally or, 250 00:12:44,225 --> 00:12:46,285 or literally you use with your company 251 00:12:46,305 --> 00:12:48,605 or with yourself in pre-production? 252 00:12:50,465 --> 00:12:53,875 - Well, in, in pre-production, once I've already, 253 00:12:54,115 --> 00:12:57,155 I understand the project at hand, I'll write out an outline 254 00:12:57,155 --> 00:12:59,115 of what, what my piece is gonna be about 255 00:12:59,575 --> 00:13:01,635 and how I would plan to tell it. 256 00:13:02,305 --> 00:13:04,715 Then I write up my interview list, who do I plan 257 00:13:04,715 --> 00:13:08,155 to interview, and what are the shots we need to get, 258 00:13:08,185 --> 00:13:11,535 otherwise, the B roll shots, um, 259 00:13:11,635 --> 00:13:13,535 - Can you just talk about B roll shots a little bit? 260 00:13:13,615 --> 00:13:14,735 I don't know what that means. Sure. 261 00:13:14,965 --> 00:13:18,935 - Well, B roll shots are if the a, if the A 262 00:13:19,485 --> 00:13:20,775 roll is the interview, 263 00:13:22,045 --> 00:13:25,625 the b roll shots are the shots that compliment 264 00:13:25,625 --> 00:13:27,505 what those people say. 265 00:13:28,005 --> 00:13:32,185 As you're listening to them continuing to speak, we're going 266 00:13:32,205 --> 00:13:35,505 to a second shot to support what they're talking about. 267 00:13:36,045 --> 00:13:40,745 So it might be, if they're talking about, um, a summer camp, 268 00:13:41,205 --> 00:13:43,745 you'll see kids playing at the summer camp, 269 00:13:43,885 --> 00:13:46,105 or specifically if they're talking about the swim program, 270 00:13:46,435 --> 00:13:47,785 we're gonna show shots 271 00:13:47,845 --> 00:13:49,945 of kids swimming at their summer camp. 272 00:13:50,365 --> 00:13:54,875 So I need to make sure that we're planning to shoot 273 00:13:55,445 --> 00:13:58,355 those kids swimming and having fun, 274 00:13:58,495 --> 00:14:00,715 and we're getting plenty of smiles or, 275 00:14:01,375 --> 00:14:02,795 or good looking swimmers. 276 00:14:04,045 --> 00:14:07,165 I, and when I say good looking, I mean effective swimmers 277 00:14:07,675 --> 00:14:10,245 looking like they're benefiting from this swim 278 00:14:10,245 --> 00:14:11,685 program at the camp. 279 00:14:12,385 --> 00:14:15,485 So those are b-roll shots that we need to get. 280 00:14:15,585 --> 00:14:18,965 And I'll have a list of shots that we need to cover. 281 00:14:19,065 --> 00:14:22,605 So we're, we're covering a, a new drug release. 282 00:14:23,815 --> 00:14:28,395 We might get shots of, of chemists, uh, looking at charts 283 00:14:28,395 --> 00:14:32,275 or x-rays or what have you that help tell that story. 284 00:14:32,615 --> 00:14:34,875 And, um, we need to make sure that we can get them, 285 00:14:34,875 --> 00:14:36,235 whether we're filming them 286 00:14:36,655 --> 00:14:39,515 or whether we're securing them through stock footage houses, 287 00:14:40,325 --> 00:14:42,115 those are shots that we need to get 288 00:14:42,895 --> 00:14:46,635 and all are all options, depending on what our budgets are 289 00:14:46,695 --> 00:14:47,915 and what our story is. 290 00:14:49,445 --> 00:14:51,365 - It seems like a lot of planning. It 291 00:14:51,365 --> 00:14:53,405 - Is a lot of planning, but the more planning you do, 292 00:14:53,545 --> 00:14:56,605 the more time you save in at, in the actual production, 293 00:14:56,605 --> 00:14:58,725 and it's critical that you have a plan 294 00:14:59,225 --> 00:15:03,125 and you specifically move forward to execute that plan. 295 00:15:03,975 --> 00:15:07,155 You have to be adaptable to things that happen that are 296 00:15:07,765 --> 00:15:10,835 unforeseen and you don't fall apart. 297 00:15:11,335 --> 00:15:12,875 Uh, when it starts to rain 298 00:15:13,915 --> 00:15:17,335 or when someone doesn't show up or what have you. 299 00:15:17,395 --> 00:15:19,215 You always need to have a plan B. 300 00:15:20,395 --> 00:15:24,255 - So you've got a list of every shot and, 301 00:15:24,355 --> 00:15:25,935 and the things you need to think about 302 00:15:26,315 --> 00:15:28,935 and a plan B just in case things don't go right, 303 00:15:29,555 --> 00:15:32,935 - Yes, you have a shot list of things that you need 304 00:15:32,935 --> 00:15:37,695 to shoot, and if you can't get a certain shot, then you 305 00:15:38,205 --> 00:15:41,615 know, you'll ha if you're an experienced producer director, 306 00:15:41,615 --> 00:15:44,335 you'll know you can get them at some other in some other 307 00:15:44,355 --> 00:15:46,015 way, or it's on some other day, 308 00:15:46,425 --> 00:15:47,425 - Right? 309 00:15:47,425 --> 00:15:50,255 Because if without the list, if you go into post-production 310 00:15:50,255 --> 00:15:51,655 and realize you didn't have a shot, 311 00:15:52,075 --> 00:15:53,535 you've got trouble on your hands, right? 312 00:15:53,885 --> 00:15:55,775 - It's, it's too late in many ways. 313 00:15:55,835 --> 00:16:00,295 And then you're, then you're making changes against, uh, 314 00:16:00,475 --> 00:16:02,855 you know, really what the desire the client is 315 00:16:02,875 --> 00:16:03,895 and what you want to do. 316 00:16:04,435 --> 00:16:06,095 And that's shame on you. 317 00:16:06,555 --> 00:16:09,055 You know, you need to, you need to have a written out list. 318 00:16:09,075 --> 00:16:11,055 You literally check them off as you do them. 319 00:16:11,795 --> 00:16:14,735 - So if I'm a novice, what, what's your advice for, 320 00:16:15,315 --> 00:16:17,215 for someone who has to think that through? 321 00:16:17,315 --> 00:16:19,015 Are there any templates that I can use? 322 00:16:20,045 --> 00:16:21,665 - You shoot things in the order that 323 00:16:22,325 --> 00:16:24,185 is convenient to shooting them? 324 00:16:24,725 --> 00:16:26,305 Not in the order of the piece, of course. 325 00:16:27,085 --> 00:16:29,145 So going back to the summer camp, 326 00:16:29,205 --> 00:16:30,585 if the swimming is in the morning, 327 00:16:31,005 --> 00:16:32,705 you're getting all your swimming shots, 328 00:16:32,765 --> 00:16:34,985 and you need to make sure that you check them off 329 00:16:35,005 --> 00:16:38,265 as they happen because arts and crafts is a two, 330 00:16:38,845 --> 00:16:41,625 and you're gonna be over there filming arts and crafts, 331 00:16:41,805 --> 00:16:44,865 and you have specific shots that you need. 332 00:16:45,125 --> 00:16:48,265 Now you want to be efficient in the way that you shoot, 333 00:16:48,405 --> 00:16:50,545 and you want to shoot more than you're gonna use. 334 00:16:51,975 --> 00:16:55,865 But it's important to know 335 00:16:56,045 --> 00:16:58,265 as you're looking at the monitor of what your 336 00:16:58,805 --> 00:17:00,145 camera person is shooting, 337 00:17:00,245 --> 00:17:04,625 or if you're shooting it yourself, you should, uh, 338 00:17:05,295 --> 00:17:08,425 develop the skill to know that here's a shot 339 00:17:09,595 --> 00:17:11,655 and the action takes place. 340 00:17:11,875 --> 00:17:15,455 And you know, I've got it. I have that shot. 341 00:17:16,195 --> 00:17:17,735 So you can check it off. 342 00:17:17,735 --> 00:17:19,495 And sometimes it just takes a few minutes. 343 00:17:19,915 --> 00:17:23,855 If you need a single person swimming in the pool 344 00:17:24,935 --> 00:17:27,995 and you've got that shot, there's no need 345 00:17:27,995 --> 00:17:30,155 to spend another half hour trying 346 00:17:30,155 --> 00:17:31,315 to get more swimming shots. 347 00:17:31,385 --> 00:17:34,795 When you only need one, you need to make sure 348 00:17:34,795 --> 00:17:35,795 that you only need one. 349 00:17:36,585 --> 00:17:40,035 It's, it's, it's important to shoot more than the one, 350 00:17:40,335 --> 00:17:41,915 but you don't want to shoot 351 00:17:42,015 --> 00:17:44,355 for an hour when you only need one shot. 352 00:17:45,265 --> 00:17:48,125 If you've got it, you can, you need to be confident enough 353 00:17:48,125 --> 00:17:50,270 to say, okay, now I'm gonna move on to the next thing. 354 00:17:52,905 --> 00:17:54,965 - So before you do any production at all, 355 00:17:54,965 --> 00:17:59,605 capture any shots in the field, you really need to revisit 356 00:17:59,795 --> 00:18:01,885 that story arc that you created, 357 00:18:02,065 --> 00:18:03,885 or the story you intend to tell, 358 00:18:04,425 --> 00:18:07,925 or the, the, the pull through for the story 359 00:18:08,545 --> 00:18:10,165 before you go out and get those shots. 360 00:18:10,265 --> 00:18:13,005 Or you need to keep that in mind as you're shooting, right? 361 00:18:14,065 --> 00:18:17,845 - Yes. The story arc is gonna be developed mostly from 362 00:18:19,245 --> 00:18:20,825 the words in your script 363 00:18:21,045 --> 00:18:25,335 and the interviews, words, interviewees words, the, 364 00:18:25,435 --> 00:18:26,655 the B roll shooting, 365 00:18:27,355 --> 00:18:31,615 the supporting materials are just helping to reinforce 366 00:18:31,645 --> 00:18:32,775 what those words are. 367 00:18:33,235 --> 00:18:36,375 And there might be a way that you shoot things to add 368 00:18:36,515 --> 00:18:40,695 to the drama or the reveal that you can think about 369 00:18:41,215 --> 00:18:44,335 creatively out there in the way that you shoot things. 370 00:18:44,915 --> 00:18:48,895 But, um, most of the, the hooks 371 00:18:48,895 --> 00:18:52,455 of your story are from the words in the end. 372 00:18:52,525 --> 00:18:55,095 Writing is everything, the words that you use. 373 00:18:55,095 --> 00:18:57,095 And when you're using someone else's words, 374 00:18:57,715 --> 00:19:00,175 you're in the edit room, you have an opportunity 375 00:19:00,275 --> 00:19:02,775 to basically write the story with their words. 376 00:19:04,295 --> 00:19:08,695 And that remains the most incredible 377 00:19:09,955 --> 00:19:11,255 responsibility and, 378 00:19:11,715 --> 00:19:15,415 and beautiful, uh, creative tool 379 00:19:15,525 --> 00:19:18,015 that we have always had to you, 380 00:19:18,015 --> 00:19:20,695 - You do it well, it, it pulls through all of your pieces. 381 00:19:20,895 --> 00:19:22,455 I mean, you're a master at it. 382 00:19:23,395 --> 00:19:26,655 And, and then you just mentioned the, the B-roll shots. 383 00:19:26,855 --> 00:19:28,415 I, you know, I hadn't even thought about that. 384 00:19:28,655 --> 00:19:30,895 I was so focused on, well, interviewing the person 385 00:19:30,955 --> 00:19:33,135 and getting them to, you know, say the things 386 00:19:33,165 --> 00:19:34,935 that support the story you want to tell, 387 00:19:35,675 --> 00:19:38,695 but the, the, the, the B-roll shots, the footage 388 00:19:38,755 --> 00:19:42,215 of the kids jumping into the, into the lake, you know, off 389 00:19:42,215 --> 00:19:45,535 of the board in the morning through the sunshine, 390 00:19:45,985 --> 00:19:48,055 while the person is telling the story. 391 00:19:48,155 --> 00:19:50,335 So you cut from them to that B-roll. 392 00:19:50,555 --> 00:19:51,815 God, that is so important, 393 00:19:52,305 --> 00:19:53,305 - Right? 394 00:19:53,305 --> 00:19:54,775 And the example that you just laid out 395 00:19:55,555 --> 00:19:58,565 with kids jumping into the lake, uh, people tend, 396 00:19:58,565 --> 00:20:01,285 when they're filming themselves, they tend to think 397 00:20:01,285 --> 00:20:02,565 that they really need to do, 398 00:20:02,945 --> 00:20:04,885 I'm the camera person, I need to do a lot. 399 00:20:06,385 --> 00:20:11,295 And the truth is, is that sometimes a locked off shot 400 00:20:11,785 --> 00:20:14,215 where you see the sun and you see the trees, 401 00:20:14,355 --> 00:20:16,455 and you see the backs of the kids as they're about 402 00:20:16,455 --> 00:20:19,135 to jump in, that's the whole shot. 403 00:20:20,335 --> 00:20:22,915 So the camera person doesn't feel like they have to go move, 404 00:20:22,975 --> 00:20:25,235 you know, you're not capturing them jumping off, 405 00:20:25,375 --> 00:20:27,155 you're capturing the wide shot. 406 00:20:27,975 --> 00:20:31,675 And so I'm a big fan of just the locked off shot from behind 407 00:20:32,375 --> 00:20:35,595 in that situation, or a slight creep left 408 00:20:35,935 --> 00:20:37,235 to right, or right to left. 409 00:20:38,175 --> 00:20:40,715 But you're, you're capturing the whole beauty. 410 00:20:41,015 --> 00:20:43,275 I'm, I'm a fan of subtle movements. 411 00:20:44,115 --> 00:20:45,355 I don't want a camera guy 412 00:20:45,355 --> 00:20:48,645 that is then gonna film people moving around. 413 00:20:48,745 --> 00:20:52,005 If you're, if you're covering a basketball game, yeah, 414 00:20:52,075 --> 00:20:54,805 once in a while to see the sh the ball go up 415 00:20:54,805 --> 00:20:56,885 and you're following the ball into the net, okay, fine. 416 00:20:56,985 --> 00:21:01,605 But in the, in the scope of a, a more thoughtful 417 00:21:02,245 --> 00:21:05,285 sequence of words, you want to shoot things 418 00:21:05,545 --> 00:21:08,445 as an observer in a creative, artistic way. 419 00:21:08,625 --> 00:21:11,165 So be, why don't be afraid to be wide, 420 00:21:11,865 --> 00:21:15,205 and so that you see the scene, and, and so 421 00:21:15,515 --> 00:21:17,925 therefore, the, the job of the shooter is 422 00:21:18,105 --> 00:21:23,085 to just capture the scene, not necessarily every nuance 423 00:21:23,305 --> 00:21:26,005 of, of what is going on in that scene. 424 00:21:26,585 --> 00:21:28,325 - And that just sucks you in. 425 00:21:28,365 --> 00:21:29,725 I mean, I, I've watched your pieces 426 00:21:30,105 --> 00:21:34,925 and you sometimes start that way, um, with some narration, 427 00:21:35,305 --> 00:21:36,765 and it pulls me right in, 428 00:21:36,765 --> 00:21:38,925 because of course, you're inside of the action 429 00:21:38,925 --> 00:21:41,485 or whatever the emotion of that moment is right away. 430 00:21:42,305 --> 00:21:44,565 Can you talk to me about those shots? 431 00:21:44,585 --> 00:21:46,405 You talked about the wide shot and, 432 00:21:46,425 --> 00:21:47,805 and what are those different shots called? 433 00:21:47,825 --> 00:21:50,525 So if I'm gonna go out and shoot a piece, yes. 434 00:21:50,525 --> 00:21:51,605 I've got the interview shot, 435 00:21:51,605 --> 00:21:54,045 and I want to talk about the one shot or the two shot 436 00:21:54,065 --> 00:21:56,565 or whatever, whatever you use when you interview people. 437 00:21:57,265 --> 00:22:01,485 But can you talk to me about, uh, the different shots, 438 00:22:01,505 --> 00:22:03,605 an establishing shot or a transition 439 00:22:03,625 --> 00:22:06,085 or cutaway, whatever it is that you, that you do. 440 00:22:06,165 --> 00:22:08,485 I know a little bit about it just 'cause I'm a fan of it. 441 00:22:08,985 --> 00:22:11,565 Um, but can you talk to me as a pro about some 442 00:22:11,565 --> 00:22:13,685 of the shots you try to capture, just like you, you did 443 00:22:13,685 --> 00:22:14,805 with the wide shot and, 444 00:22:14,805 --> 00:22:16,045 and what, and what you're looking to do. 445 00:22:16,705 --> 00:22:18,885 - You are heading on a, a lot of the terms. 446 00:22:19,205 --> 00:22:21,485 I mean, um, it's important 447 00:22:21,545 --> 00:22:24,725 to always have a wide establishing shot of every scene. 448 00:22:25,485 --> 00:22:27,535 It's usually the first thing I try to shoot. 449 00:22:28,895 --> 00:22:32,235 And, uh, whether that is a wide shot of 450 00:22:33,895 --> 00:22:35,835 the scene where the people are, 451 00:22:35,895 --> 00:22:40,035 or the where the, the scene I'm about to shoot is, 452 00:22:40,735 --> 00:22:45,715 or whether even an exterior shot of a building in which 453 00:22:46,305 --> 00:22:48,555 this takes place can suffice. 454 00:22:49,375 --> 00:22:51,635 We just need to give people a perspective. 455 00:22:52,095 --> 00:22:54,075 And it's often a pause in the story 456 00:22:54,495 --> 00:22:57,875 or a transition in the story where we we're leaving one 457 00:22:58,835 --> 00:23:01,495 aspect and we're, we're moving to a new location, 458 00:23:01,555 --> 00:23:04,695 and there should be a couple of beats, maybe a music change, 459 00:23:05,555 --> 00:23:09,535 and we see an establishing shot that tells the viewer, oh, 460 00:23:09,985 --> 00:23:12,375 we're, we're going on to another chapter. 461 00:23:13,255 --> 00:23:15,835 Uh, or there's a slight tweak in the story 462 00:23:16,255 --> 00:23:17,315 that's about to happen. 463 00:23:18,025 --> 00:23:20,075 From there, you go 464 00:23:20,075 --> 00:23:22,035 and try to, in the most creative way, 465 00:23:22,165 --> 00:23:23,715 cover whatever you're filming. 466 00:23:24,785 --> 00:23:26,885 And often, uh, it's not unusual 467 00:23:26,945 --> 00:23:29,165 to shoot people at their office 468 00:23:29,705 --> 00:23:31,445 for corporate videos at work. 469 00:23:32,455 --> 00:23:36,275 So have them engage in actions 470 00:23:36,345 --> 00:23:39,155 that they normally do at their desks 471 00:23:39,575 --> 00:23:42,795 or in the conference room, or in presenting to others. 472 00:23:43,735 --> 00:23:45,445 So if you were to film a, 473 00:23:45,565 --> 00:23:48,125 a scene in a conference room at a presentation, 474 00:23:49,135 --> 00:23:51,355 you may not be listening to what they're saying, 475 00:23:52,135 --> 00:23:55,915 but you want to establish that this person is a leader, 476 00:23:56,415 --> 00:24:00,195 and he, and she's talking to people at the table. 477 00:24:00,855 --> 00:24:04,355 And, and so you'll shoot, uh, maybe a wide shot 478 00:24:04,355 --> 00:24:05,595 of the exterior of the building, 479 00:24:06,065 --> 00:24:08,755 then you'll shoot a wide shot of the conference room, 480 00:24:09,385 --> 00:24:11,915 then you'll shoot a tight shot of her speaking, 481 00:24:12,615 --> 00:24:15,235 you'll make sure you'll shoot tight shots 482 00:24:15,335 --> 00:24:17,355 of people listening to her at the table. 483 00:24:18,095 --> 00:24:22,355 And from there, you're kind of, you're covering everything 484 00:24:22,435 --> 00:24:25,555 that you need to from what you're trying to tell 485 00:24:25,775 --> 00:24:26,995 and what she's trying to tell. 486 00:24:27,415 --> 00:24:31,905 Now, I often like to record people 487 00:24:32,045 --> 00:24:35,105 and what they're saying, so we have a little, little audio 488 00:24:35,105 --> 00:24:38,625 underneath, whether we're using that audio up full or not. 489 00:24:38,655 --> 00:24:40,745 It's always important to have that audio. 490 00:24:41,745 --> 00:24:45,235 Sometimes we shoot in what we call high speed, 491 00:24:45,235 --> 00:24:46,675 which is actually slow-mo. 492 00:24:47,655 --> 00:24:50,795 Uh, it's a way to heighten the dramatics 493 00:24:50,815 --> 00:24:52,795 of a certain shot. 494 00:24:53,915 --> 00:24:57,135 The texture of the footage enhances that as well. 495 00:24:57,235 --> 00:25:01,015 The drama of the moment, when you do that, you often 496 00:25:01,535 --> 00:25:03,815 sacrifice being able to record with audio. 497 00:25:03,955 --> 00:25:05,975 Of course, if you're playing it back in slowmo, 498 00:25:05,975 --> 00:25:07,375 you're not gonna use the audio. 499 00:25:08,345 --> 00:25:10,405 But, uh, those are all things that you need 500 00:25:10,405 --> 00:25:11,685 to consider when you're shooting. 501 00:25:12,305 --> 00:25:13,925 And how can we film this? 502 00:25:14,445 --> 00:25:16,205 I want to get a little audio underneath. 503 00:25:16,275 --> 00:25:18,485 Okay, we're gonna shoot in 60 frames. 504 00:25:18,495 --> 00:25:20,245 We'll have the option to slow it down 505 00:25:20,265 --> 00:25:23,765 and have it still look great and recorded audio, 506 00:25:25,185 --> 00:25:26,685 or if we need to slow it down further, 507 00:25:26,735 --> 00:25:28,485 maybe we won't have that option with audio. 508 00:25:28,535 --> 00:25:30,205 Those are all things that come into play. 509 00:25:30,825 --> 00:25:33,045 But at that point, I've covered that 510 00:25:33,885 --> 00:25:36,715 conference room scene in, in every way 511 00:25:36,715 --> 00:25:38,275 that I can possibly do. 512 00:25:39,135 --> 00:25:43,515 You might want to shoot the person speaking at the front 513 00:25:43,515 --> 00:25:46,955 of the room, and you're, you move the camera slowly from 514 00:25:46,975 --> 00:25:49,755 behind people who are, whose backs are to the camera, 515 00:25:49,855 --> 00:25:51,075 and they're listening to the person. 516 00:25:51,375 --> 00:25:53,835 So those are all creative ways that you can shoot a certain 517 00:25:54,525 --> 00:25:56,395 scene as simple as a conference room. 518 00:25:57,095 --> 00:25:59,315 And anybody could do that, whether you're doing it 519 00:25:59,315 --> 00:26:00,595 with a professional crew 520 00:26:00,655 --> 00:26:04,115 or whether you're, uh, filming it with your iPhone. 521 00:26:04,285 --> 00:26:06,195 Those are all shots that you can get. 522 00:26:07,575 --> 00:26:09,705 There's the, there's the larger productions 523 00:26:09,705 --> 00:26:11,345 where you're using higher end cameras, 524 00:26:12,045 --> 00:26:13,505 and then there are other productions 525 00:26:13,505 --> 00:26:15,985 where we're using nothing more than an iPhone. 526 00:26:16,895 --> 00:26:20,315 So, um, you use an iPhone, well, 527 00:26:21,155 --> 00:26:22,755 I generally try not to, 528 00:26:23,735 --> 00:26:25,515 but there are plenty of people who do. 529 00:26:26,735 --> 00:26:29,635 And the the images are remarkable. 530 00:26:29,965 --> 00:26:33,155 Often people use iPhones as a supplement to 531 00:26:33,985 --> 00:26:35,755 what they're shooting out. 532 00:26:35,825 --> 00:26:37,595 With more professional grade cameras, 533 00:26:38,455 --> 00:26:41,955 if you set your camera video specs to 4K, 534 00:26:42,775 --> 00:26:46,525 you can still deliver material that plays best on a screen 535 00:26:47,305 --> 00:26:49,885 by using those extra pixel dimensions 536 00:26:50,065 --> 00:26:53,085 to fit within your vertical display. 537 00:26:53,785 --> 00:26:57,325 Uh, when you shoot it this way, you can only, you're limited 538 00:26:57,465 --> 00:26:58,765 to being able to shoot it 539 00:26:59,105 --> 00:27:02,605 or play it back in that vertical format. 540 00:27:02,825 --> 00:27:05,165 And it's not quite as versatile as I'd like. 541 00:27:05,945 --> 00:27:09,325 So it's important that if you use your, if you're filming 542 00:27:09,355 --> 00:27:13,445 with an iPhone, I think it's important to set things to 4K 543 00:27:14,435 --> 00:27:18,575 to shoot horizontally, to, to bring a tripod 544 00:27:19,395 --> 00:27:23,485 and a gimbal so that you can get smooth moves. 545 00:27:23,645 --> 00:27:26,445 A gimbal is a way to move the camera wet 546 00:27:26,445 --> 00:27:29,845 around in a more smooth manner than just your hands. 547 00:27:31,155 --> 00:27:35,975 And two, properly light, even with a basic light, 548 00:27:36,805 --> 00:27:38,235 would be a good idea. 549 00:27:38,975 --> 00:27:42,315 And most importantly, when using an iPhone, the biggest 550 00:27:43,185 --> 00:27:44,505 fallback is audio. 551 00:27:44,685 --> 00:27:46,985 People forget how important audio is. 552 00:27:47,445 --> 00:27:49,265 So go on Amazon 553 00:27:49,285 --> 00:27:53,645 and pick up, uh, a $40, um, 554 00:27:54,265 --> 00:27:56,725 mic kit, la lavalier mic kit, 555 00:27:56,905 --> 00:27:59,285 and that plugs into your iPhone, 556 00:27:59,465 --> 00:28:03,645 and you will get so much better audio than you do from the 557 00:28:03,645 --> 00:28:05,445 microphone that's on the phone itself. 558 00:28:05,545 --> 00:28:07,725 And you'll see that in the lower end productions. 559 00:28:08,225 --> 00:28:11,245 The most noticeable difference is the audio, 560 00:28:11,545 --> 00:28:12,685 not the video. It, 561 00:28:12,705 --> 00:28:13,705 - It absolutely is. 562 00:28:13,705 --> 00:28:15,885 And they're so cheap and accessible. 563 00:28:16,105 --> 00:28:17,125 And I used one, 564 00:28:17,125 --> 00:28:19,525 and you helped me with, uh, with, with 565 00:28:19,525 --> 00:28:22,285 how I should be using my iPhone when I shot the video for, 566 00:28:22,425 --> 00:28:24,045 uh, the piece on my website. 567 00:28:24,545 --> 00:28:26,765 And, uh, and it made all the difference in the world. 568 00:28:26,905 --> 00:28:30,405 And just, just using the, the right, a lavalier 569 00:28:30,755 --> 00:28:32,005 that plugs into the bottom 570 00:28:32,065 --> 00:28:34,925 of my iPhone just made all the difference in the world. 571 00:28:35,185 --> 00:28:36,185 Mm-Hmm, - . 572 00:28:36,625 --> 00:28:38,405 - So, for all the things that you just talked about, 573 00:28:38,405 --> 00:28:39,685 which were wonderful, and, 574 00:28:39,865 --> 00:28:43,165 and I think you can see many of the examples of 575 00:28:43,165 --> 00:28:44,205 what you're talking about. 576 00:28:44,355 --> 00:28:45,965 Well, first of all, on your website, right? 577 00:28:45,965 --> 00:28:47,285 Dutch productions, you can go there 578 00:28:47,285 --> 00:28:48,125 and check some of those things 579 00:28:48,125 --> 00:28:49,285 out that Steve's talking about here. 580 00:28:49,625 --> 00:28:51,325 But, you know, if you watch a TV commercial, 581 00:28:51,385 --> 00:28:54,205 you watch a movie and you watch them pan to something, 582 00:28:54,305 --> 00:28:56,085 you know, and then go into a tight shot, 583 00:28:56,385 --> 00:28:57,525 you can replicate those. 584 00:28:57,945 --> 00:29:01,725 But again, I just want to take it back to the very beginning 585 00:29:01,865 --> 00:29:03,525 of when you're planning those shots 586 00:29:03,665 --> 00:29:05,005 for the very things that you just said. 587 00:29:05,625 --> 00:29:07,325 So what kind of shots might you want 588 00:29:07,325 --> 00:29:08,925 to capture in the context of the story? 589 00:29:09,355 --> 00:29:11,805 What equipment am I going to need? 590 00:29:11,945 --> 00:29:13,845 How early do I need to get there? 591 00:29:14,065 --> 00:29:15,965 How should I test those things? 592 00:29:16,225 --> 00:29:18,045 Should I bring extra batteries? 593 00:29:18,265 --> 00:29:19,885 So you really do need to, 594 00:29:20,105 --> 00:29:22,805 to think all the little details through, right? 595 00:29:22,805 --> 00:29:25,285 Because then you can focus on the, the storytelling, 596 00:29:25,305 --> 00:29:29,085 the visual art or visual storytelling, uh, as opposed to, 597 00:29:29,465 --> 00:29:32,695 oh my gosh, I don't know if we're gonna have enough, uh, 598 00:29:33,095 --> 00:29:35,655 a battery to, to do the entire shoot. 599 00:29:36,415 --> 00:29:37,825 - When you're a one man band 600 00:29:37,825 --> 00:29:41,525 and you're doing everything, you'll be reminded as to 601 00:29:41,585 --> 00:29:45,005 how difficult each aspects of these jobs are 602 00:29:45,005 --> 00:29:46,965 to do really well at the highest level. 603 00:29:48,075 --> 00:29:52,215 And it's a tall order to be the guy who's in charge 604 00:29:52,275 --> 00:29:54,135 of making sure the batteries are charged 605 00:29:54,915 --> 00:29:57,975 and also telling the story in the most effective way. 606 00:29:58,095 --> 00:30:02,345 I mean, uh, it's a, if it, it's a difficult challenge. 607 00:30:02,965 --> 00:30:05,105 The more you do it, the better you'll be at it, 608 00:30:05,165 --> 00:30:06,665 and you'll get into a routine. 609 00:30:07,405 --> 00:30:12,215 But generally with us, we're hiring crews, 610 00:30:12,355 --> 00:30:15,775 or we have access to crews that are used to their routine 611 00:30:15,775 --> 00:30:17,615 and the, and the demands of their job. 612 00:30:17,995 --> 00:30:22,375 And they have worked on it every day for years 613 00:30:23,035 --> 00:30:25,255 to the point where everything is automated. 614 00:30:25,255 --> 00:30:29,535 They have their cameras set up where with a flick, a flick 615 00:30:29,535 --> 00:30:30,535 of a couple buttons. 616 00:30:31,005 --> 00:30:33,095 They're changing modes in the way 617 00:30:33,095 --> 00:30:34,375 that they're shooting a scene. 618 00:30:34,395 --> 00:30:36,855 And we've talked about how we want to cha 619 00:30:37,075 --> 00:30:38,495 how we wanna shoot certain things 620 00:30:39,245 --> 00:30:42,305 so they can adjust quickly out in the field. 621 00:30:42,325 --> 00:30:44,905 And we're not spending time flicking through buttons. 622 00:30:46,455 --> 00:30:48,595 - Now, suppose I am lucky enough to be able 623 00:30:48,595 --> 00:30:51,475 to hire a production company like a Dutch Productions. 624 00:30:52,185 --> 00:30:53,435 What do you need from them? 625 00:30:53,615 --> 00:30:57,395 Or what should I be asking a production company or, 626 00:30:57,415 --> 00:31:00,595 or talking to them about if I have the ability to hire one? 627 00:31:01,615 --> 00:31:03,105 - Well, I think the, the first thing 628 00:31:03,105 --> 00:31:04,785 that you wanna do when you're searching 629 00:31:04,785 --> 00:31:07,545 for a production company is to find one that 630 00:31:09,115 --> 00:31:12,055 has done pieces similar to what you're looking to do. 631 00:31:12,315 --> 00:31:14,215 Mm-Hmm, , that's the most important thing. 632 00:31:14,275 --> 00:31:18,495 So you can see their sensitivity to the details 633 00:31:18,565 --> 00:31:20,095 that are important to you. 634 00:31:21,725 --> 00:31:25,055 From there, you, you may want to get an idea of 635 00:31:25,345 --> 00:31:27,615 where they are cost-wise 636 00:31:27,715 --> 00:31:29,815 and what they're, what realm they're usually, 637 00:31:30,205 --> 00:31:31,735 what world they, they live in. 638 00:31:32,075 --> 00:31:36,175 Um, because there's a great variety in terms of 639 00:31:36,685 --> 00:31:38,375 what each company brings to the table, 640 00:31:38,375 --> 00:31:40,735 whether they have on staff shooters 641 00:31:40,755 --> 00:31:43,575 or not, uh, graphic designers or not, 642 00:31:44,395 --> 00:31:47,495 and the kinds of costs that, that usually represents. 643 00:31:48,425 --> 00:31:50,765 And for the companies that have been around a while, I mean, 644 00:31:50,765 --> 00:31:54,525 it's not unusual for production companies to, to bring in 645 00:31:55,355 --> 00:31:58,325 specialties or special talents according 646 00:31:58,385 --> 00:31:59,965 to the project that's at hand. 647 00:32:00,765 --> 00:32:03,025 So a big company that has a lot 648 00:32:03,025 --> 00:32:05,345 of people on staff is not necessarily the best company 649 00:32:05,525 --> 00:32:07,105 for your production, 650 00:32:07,575 --> 00:32:08,745 because they're gonna want 651 00:32:08,745 --> 00:32:10,065 to use the people that are on staff. 652 00:32:10,085 --> 00:32:13,665 The graphic designers may not be the perfect look 653 00:32:14,365 --> 00:32:16,065 for your product or your service. 654 00:32:16,645 --> 00:32:20,905 The level of shooters may not be the same as that you, 655 00:32:21,135 --> 00:32:23,345 that you need as the ones 656 00:32:23,345 --> 00:32:25,385 that are on staff at a production company. 657 00:32:26,735 --> 00:32:29,395 So often a production company, a smaller production company, 658 00:32:29,465 --> 00:32:32,115 that, that is more flexible 659 00:32:32,255 --> 00:32:36,535 and versatile, who can hire the specialists that are perfect 660 00:32:36,675 --> 00:32:39,685 for your project, might be the best option for you. 661 00:32:39,825 --> 00:32:40,845 But you need to make sure 662 00:32:40,845 --> 00:32:42,925 that the person who's driving the story 663 00:32:43,105 --> 00:32:45,845 or the production is experienced in telling 664 00:32:45,915 --> 00:32:47,005 your types of stories. 665 00:32:50,455 --> 00:32:52,745 - Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about, uh, 666 00:32:52,765 --> 00:32:54,545 the exciting shoots that you've done 667 00:32:56,135 --> 00:32:57,135 - Through the years. 668 00:32:57,935 --> 00:33:00,905 I've had the good fortune to interview 669 00:33:01,325 --> 00:33:05,705 and communicate with, uh, a really a crazy cross section of 670 00:33:06,415 --> 00:33:08,385 celebrities and sports figures. 671 00:33:08,465 --> 00:33:10,905 I mean, our business has generally been sports 672 00:33:11,015 --> 00:33:12,465 related from the beginning. 673 00:33:13,565 --> 00:33:16,785 So I've had the opportunity to interview, you know, 674 00:33:16,785 --> 00:33:21,345 Arnold Palmer and, uh, Joe Frazier, and I mean, 675 00:33:22,005 --> 00:33:25,945 and then, and then in another world, uh, John Oliver and, 676 00:33:26,165 --> 00:33:30,025 and, uh, Chris Rock and, uh, Jerry Seinfeld. 677 00:33:30,975 --> 00:33:33,345 It's been a remarkable journey in that regard, 678 00:33:33,805 --> 00:33:37,105 and it's just sort of the, the benefits 679 00:33:37,345 --> 00:33:39,745 of working in this business for so long and, 680 00:33:39,845 --> 00:33:42,105 and for such high profile 681 00:33:42,905 --> 00:33:45,215 properties like Madison Square Garden. 682 00:33:46,155 --> 00:33:49,015 And, um, when you say ESPN, you're doing a show 683 00:33:49,015 --> 00:33:50,735 for ESPN usually opens up a lot of doors, 684 00:33:50,755 --> 00:33:54,855 or HBO it, it, it gets people know, uh, 685 00:33:55,035 --> 00:33:58,295 to notice you and intrigued to participate. 686 00:33:59,265 --> 00:34:02,085 To me, those are some of the, certainly some 687 00:34:02,085 --> 00:34:04,565 of the more exciting names that I've, I've been around. 688 00:34:04,745 --> 00:34:07,765 And, um, I mean, I think I'm not unlike a lot 689 00:34:07,765 --> 00:34:09,525 of people who've worked in this business for a while, 690 00:34:09,525 --> 00:34:11,205 that they, once in a while, they, 691 00:34:11,215 --> 00:34:13,405 these opportunities crop up. 692 00:34:14,525 --> 00:34:16,515 - Who's the most fun to talk to and why? 693 00:34:17,565 --> 00:34:19,625 You can name a couple, you don't have to pick one. 694 00:34:21,675 --> 00:34:24,935 - One of the neater things that I got to do was a bunch 695 00:34:24,935 --> 00:34:27,495 of years ago when I interviewed Red Auerbach. 696 00:34:28,235 --> 00:34:31,875 - Oh. And, - Um, what was really 697 00:34:32,805 --> 00:34:35,915 great about him was how down to earth he really was. 698 00:34:37,245 --> 00:34:40,265 And during the course of the, in the interview, 699 00:34:40,845 --> 00:34:43,825 we talked about things like the sacrifice that he made 700 00:34:43,845 --> 00:34:48,065 as a longtime coach with the Boston Celtics to, uh, 701 00:34:48,215 --> 00:34:49,985 what the cost was for his family. 702 00:34:50,995 --> 00:34:54,335 And he got more emotional about it than I 703 00:34:54,365 --> 00:34:55,415 ever would've imagined. 704 00:34:56,815 --> 00:35:00,715 And at the end, he asked me when we were done, 705 00:35:00,855 --> 00:35:02,995 he asked me if I could send him 706 00:35:03,535 --> 00:35:06,585 the piece when it was done, which I did. 707 00:35:06,805 --> 00:35:11,425 And then I got a handwritten note back on Boston Celtics 708 00:35:11,425 --> 00:35:13,585 stationary thanking me for it, 709 00:35:13,585 --> 00:35:15,145 which I now have framed in my house. 710 00:35:15,805 --> 00:35:18,945 So it was that kind of personal, uh, touch that, 711 00:35:19,095 --> 00:35:20,625 that made him so great. 712 00:35:21,965 --> 00:35:26,345 And probably, I mean, he's only doing that for me, who I, 713 00:35:26,725 --> 00:35:30,305 he met once, but imagine the allegiance he drew from his 714 00:35:30,305 --> 00:35:33,345 players by the type of person that he was, 715 00:35:33,485 --> 00:35:35,025 and the type of leader that he was 716 00:35:35,735 --> 00:35:39,685 that forever indoctrinated them to great allegiance to him 717 00:35:40,225 --> 00:35:42,525 and to put out their best effort for him 718 00:35:43,055 --> 00:35:44,165 night in and night out. 719 00:35:44,345 --> 00:35:46,485 - No, that's why the guy has a statue in 720 00:35:46,515 --> 00:35:47,605 Fani Hall on a bench . 721 00:35:48,005 --> 00:35:49,965 Exactly. You sit right next to him a cigar. 722 00:35:50,265 --> 00:35:51,325 That's just amazing. 723 00:35:52,025 --> 00:35:53,845 Uh, anybody else that sort of blew you away? 724 00:35:53,845 --> 00:35:56,805 Anybody who you talk to that sort of took you off your game 725 00:35:56,805 --> 00:35:59,525 because you were just so overwhelmed speaking to them? 726 00:36:00,135 --> 00:36:01,745 Well, I think, I mean, red Beck's gotta be at the 727 00:36:01,745 --> 00:36:02,785 top of the list, but who else? 728 00:36:03,295 --> 00:36:07,115 - Yeah, I mean, um, I had a project where I was going down 729 00:36:07,115 --> 00:36:08,755 to interview Arnold Palmer, 730 00:36:10,305 --> 00:36:14,685 and, um, I was very fortunate to get this interview. 731 00:36:15,415 --> 00:36:18,125 - Where may I ask? - What's that? 732 00:36:18,295 --> 00:36:19,685 - Where did you do the interview? May I ask? 733 00:36:19,925 --> 00:36:22,245 - I did it down at his golf club in Florida. Okay. 734 00:36:22,875 --> 00:36:26,085 - Yeah. - So you kind of set these things up 735 00:36:26,105 --> 00:36:29,485 and you think, okay, you know, this is gonna be fun. 736 00:36:30,305 --> 00:36:32,095 And then the moment that he actually just, 737 00:36:32,475 --> 00:36:33,575 he walks into the room 738 00:36:34,435 --> 00:36:38,675 and you go, oh, damn, it's actually Arnold Palmer, 739 00:36:39,505 --> 00:36:41,235 he's gonna sit down and talk to me. 740 00:36:42,495 --> 00:36:45,595 Uh, is, it takes your breath away 741 00:36:45,595 --> 00:36:47,635 and you gotta have to, you have to kind 742 00:36:47,635 --> 00:36:50,105 of get your act together and, 743 00:36:50,765 --> 00:36:53,105 and be the professional that you are, 744 00:36:54,045 --> 00:36:55,465 and get him to talk to you 745 00:36:56,085 --> 00:36:57,705 and give you the answers that you need. 746 00:36:59,035 --> 00:37:02,215 So he was great, and his people were great, 747 00:37:02,475 --> 00:37:04,935 and, um, you know, God bless him. 748 00:37:05,315 --> 00:37:06,615 - Wow, it sounds amazing. But 749 00:37:06,615 --> 00:37:07,815 that's what you get for great work. 750 00:37:07,815 --> 00:37:09,355 Right? And 751 00:37:09,375 --> 00:37:13,155 so let's just talk about post-production a little bit, uh, 752 00:37:13,615 --> 00:37:17,035 and, and how you know what to keep and what to toss. 753 00:37:17,925 --> 00:37:19,775 - When you're, you're sitting in the edit room 754 00:37:19,795 --> 00:37:21,215 and you've looked at all your material 755 00:37:22,165 --> 00:37:26,625 and you realize what your best shots are, you almost want 756 00:37:26,625 --> 00:37:30,385 to take those best shots and make sure they're in the piece. 757 00:37:31,605 --> 00:37:34,935 It's a priority to get the best shots in the piece. 758 00:37:35,775 --> 00:37:39,155 So sometimes you put a shot in because you have to, 759 00:37:39,155 --> 00:37:41,235 because the person is talking about something, 760 00:37:41,295 --> 00:37:43,395 but you kind of lament, oh, 761 00:37:43,425 --> 00:37:46,115 this is not the best shot that I have. 762 00:37:46,655 --> 00:37:50,235 But when you have a great shot that shows an emotion, 763 00:37:50,555 --> 00:37:55,115 I mean, you, you, in time you develop a, a sense of 764 00:37:55,115 --> 00:37:56,115 what is a great shot. 765 00:37:56,145 --> 00:37:58,275 It's one of the most important skills you learn, 766 00:37:59,305 --> 00:38:02,365 and it takes a lot of work sometimes to really understand 767 00:38:02,395 --> 00:38:03,485 what is a great shot. 768 00:38:04,425 --> 00:38:06,245 But once you have them, once you see them 769 00:38:07,025 --> 00:38:09,405 and you know you need to get them into the piece, 770 00:38:10,805 --> 00:38:13,065 you get 'em in one, one way 771 00:38:13,065 --> 00:38:15,145 or another, you, you'll build the piece 772 00:38:15,205 --> 00:38:16,865 around a shot if you have to. 773 00:38:17,775 --> 00:38:19,375 I tell young people that if, if, 774 00:38:19,435 --> 00:38:21,375 if you're doing a short 32nd spot 775 00:38:22,225 --> 00:38:26,655 or a 32nd story, I take the best shot I have, 776 00:38:26,775 --> 00:38:29,335 I might start the piece with the best shot I have, 777 00:38:30,215 --> 00:38:33,795 if it makes sense, and the second best shot I use 778 00:38:33,795 --> 00:38:37,605 and leave at the end so that I leave on a strong note, 779 00:38:38,625 --> 00:38:41,165 and then I'll fill in around the rest. 780 00:38:42,065 --> 00:38:45,645 But when you see a shot that really makes sense, 781 00:38:45,645 --> 00:38:49,195 that captures everything that you want, you, you need 782 00:38:49,195 --> 00:38:50,395 to figure out a way to get it in. 783 00:38:50,575 --> 00:38:52,675 And, and generally, if it's really that great 784 00:38:52,735 --> 00:38:55,555 and that captivating, you'll start the piece with it. 785 00:38:56,515 --> 00:38:58,895 - And one of the things I noticed that you do in, 786 00:38:58,995 --> 00:39:03,135 in your work is, um, you'll have somebody who's who, 787 00:39:03,265 --> 00:39:04,295 maybe they'll, right, 788 00:39:04,295 --> 00:39:06,095 they'll give you just the line you want, 789 00:39:06,995 --> 00:39:11,415 but then you use silence to your advantage as well, 790 00:39:11,415 --> 00:39:14,265 because you let that line lie there 791 00:39:14,405 --> 00:39:15,545 and resonate a little bit. 792 00:39:15,605 --> 00:39:19,825 And you might cut to an, to that person physically 793 00:39:19,885 --> 00:39:23,265 or emotionally, uh, or, or physically showing emotion. 794 00:39:23,315 --> 00:39:25,745 Maybe they'll look down or they'll take a breath or they, 795 00:39:25,745 --> 00:39:26,985 and that's really powerful. 796 00:39:28,565 --> 00:39:30,215 - Well, I think all the, 797 00:39:31,045 --> 00:39:33,775 certainly the documentarians understand 798 00:39:33,835 --> 00:39:35,055 the power of a pause. 799 00:39:35,275 --> 00:39:39,295 And, uh, I think anybody who does longer form pieces 800 00:39:39,365 --> 00:39:40,695 that can afford the time, 801 00:39:41,735 --> 00:39:44,755 and yes, that's a, that's a sort of, um, 802 00:39:45,515 --> 00:39:46,555 a process of timing. 803 00:39:46,935 --> 00:39:51,035 And you might lay out a piece and a story, 804 00:39:52,005 --> 00:39:54,305 and the first time you lay it out, you're just sort 805 00:39:54,305 --> 00:39:55,305 of just executing 806 00:39:55,305 --> 00:39:56,745 and putting things in the right order 807 00:39:56,745 --> 00:39:58,505 that you think it makes sense. 808 00:39:59,085 --> 00:40:01,425 But then when you're putting the final touches on things 809 00:40:01,445 --> 00:40:02,625 and you're putting in the music 810 00:40:02,725 --> 00:40:05,625 and everything else, you realize the importance 811 00:40:05,625 --> 00:40:09,535 of the pauses and the importance of the shots. 812 00:40:11,185 --> 00:40:14,205 If there's an emotional shot, just, 813 00:40:14,515 --> 00:40:17,935 just let it put it in there and let it sing. 814 00:40:18,315 --> 00:40:19,615 Let it sit 815 00:40:19,675 --> 00:40:24,635 and let the viewer resonate with it so that it hits home. 816 00:40:25,615 --> 00:40:28,395 And sometimes if you're emotional 817 00:40:28,395 --> 00:40:31,235 and you're watching it, you won't get emotional 818 00:40:31,245 --> 00:40:32,675 until you see that shot. 819 00:40:33,545 --> 00:40:35,045 You might have just heard the words, 820 00:40:35,225 --> 00:40:37,885 but you need that second or two to think about it. 821 00:40:38,805 --> 00:40:41,825 And, um, that's critically important 822 00:40:41,845 --> 00:40:43,305 for the effectiveness of any piece. 823 00:40:44,425 --> 00:40:45,615 - Three things I wanna talk about, 824 00:40:45,875 --> 00:40:47,375 and you, you spoke to music, 825 00:40:47,515 --> 00:40:48,975 and we will get to that in a bit. 826 00:40:49,515 --> 00:40:52,695 Um, and I wanna talk about how you think about the ending 827 00:40:52,795 --> 00:40:55,535 and the importance of, of what you include in that, 828 00:40:55,565 --> 00:40:57,735 that final shot or final statement 829 00:40:57,795 --> 00:40:59,975 or final crescendo with the music. 830 00:41:01,195 --> 00:41:03,295 Who do you use when you 831 00:41:03,305 --> 00:41:04,575 wanna have someone look at your work? 832 00:41:04,715 --> 00:41:08,265 Or do you just decide that's it, I know I'm the master, 833 00:41:08,375 --> 00:41:10,945 I've, I've done it and I've got it, I've got what I want? 834 00:41:11,875 --> 00:41:14,725 - Well, at this point, I'm pretty trusting 835 00:41:14,785 --> 00:41:17,005 of my own judgment about things. 836 00:41:17,105 --> 00:41:19,605 And if I'm the one who's been the main contact 837 00:41:19,755 --> 00:41:23,525 with the client and I have a confidence in my own assessment 838 00:41:23,525 --> 00:41:27,435 of what they want, I put a certain value on 839 00:41:27,585 --> 00:41:28,795 therefore my opinion. 840 00:41:29,455 --> 00:41:31,715 But I'm always up for other opinions. 841 00:41:31,815 --> 00:41:34,365 And I would play it for almo. 842 00:41:34,525 --> 00:41:37,325 I would play a piece for almost anyone. 843 00:41:37,985 --> 00:41:40,085 And it doesn't need to be someone in the field. 844 00:41:40,605 --> 00:41:44,125 I mean, there's certainly some other, the other people 845 00:41:44,145 --> 00:41:46,805 who work here who are used to production, 846 00:41:46,805 --> 00:41:48,405 who might have a certain idea. 847 00:41:49,685 --> 00:41:53,865 And then, uh, I'll play it a piece for my wife or, 848 00:41:54,045 --> 00:41:56,465 or one of my kids who aren't 849 00:41:56,465 --> 00:41:58,945 necessarily involved in the nitty gritty. 850 00:41:58,945 --> 00:42:02,845 And I'll get a completely different take on what they see. 851 00:42:03,065 --> 00:42:06,165 And their opinion is just as valid, of course, 852 00:42:06,755 --> 00:42:08,665 because, uh, 853 00:42:09,025 --> 00:42:12,385 I can understand from their viewpoint they may have a better 854 00:42:13,185 --> 00:42:15,255 angle, I might be too close to something 855 00:42:15,275 --> 00:42:16,495 to see what they see. 856 00:42:17,485 --> 00:42:20,025 So, uh, I'm receptive to everyone's opinion. 857 00:42:20,205 --> 00:42:22,705 And then of course, the most important opinion is the 858 00:42:22,705 --> 00:42:23,865 client's opinion when they see 859 00:42:23,865 --> 00:42:24,865 it - . 860 00:42:24,865 --> 00:42:26,225 Yeah. So I wanted to ask you about that. 861 00:42:27,175 --> 00:42:28,425 Best to wait till the end, 862 00:42:28,885 --> 00:42:31,825 or do you show the client the piece as it's evolving? 863 00:42:33,635 --> 00:42:36,085 - Well, I think it's, you have to, you get 864 00:42:36,085 --> 00:42:37,965 to know your clients a little bit and, 865 00:42:38,265 --> 00:42:42,485 and some, you'll learn that you can show, uh, rough cuts 866 00:42:42,485 --> 00:42:44,525 or really rough cuts to certain clients, 867 00:42:45,385 --> 00:42:49,865 but other clients who you don't know, I would tend to wait 868 00:42:49,915 --> 00:42:52,185 until things are buttoned up a lot more. 869 00:42:52,925 --> 00:42:55,055 - Yeah. - As long as you understand 870 00:42:55,055 --> 00:42:59,065 that you're on the right path, uh, understand 871 00:42:59,065 --> 00:43:00,865 through the process that there are gonna be things 872 00:43:00,865 --> 00:43:02,465 that are gonna be hard to change. 873 00:43:03,205 --> 00:43:06,065 And I may need to clue in my client about this 874 00:43:06,475 --> 00:43:08,025 particular direction. 875 00:43:09,405 --> 00:43:11,055 But as time 876 00:43:11,155 --> 00:43:13,135 and technology has emerged, 877 00:43:14,175 --> 00:43:16,735 a adaptations late changes aren't, 878 00:43:17,125 --> 00:43:20,215 what aren't the problems they used to be in the old days? 879 00:43:20,605 --> 00:43:22,815 Yeah. I mean, the most common thing is, 880 00:43:22,835 --> 00:43:23,975 ah, I don't like the music. 881 00:43:24,595 --> 00:43:27,935 And sometimes it's a problem if you've got a whole segment 882 00:43:28,085 --> 00:43:30,215 segment that's been cut to the music. 883 00:43:31,315 --> 00:43:34,135 But generally, if that, if that's the way I'm going 884 00:43:34,135 --> 00:43:37,255 to proceed on a project, I will ask the client if this is, 885 00:43:38,105 --> 00:43:41,755 if this piece of music fits where they want to go, um, 886 00:43:42,215 --> 00:43:44,795 are these, are these the lyrics we want to use? 887 00:43:46,205 --> 00:43:48,425 Um, are you all on board with that? 888 00:43:48,485 --> 00:43:50,385 And if they are, then I feel 889 00:43:50,385 --> 00:43:51,585 confident enough to move forward. 890 00:43:52,365 --> 00:43:54,345 - Any particular music that you like to, 891 00:43:54,485 --> 00:43:55,865 to start or finish with? 892 00:43:55,885 --> 00:43:59,825 Is it rock, is it classical? Um, what do you like to use? 893 00:44:00,695 --> 00:44:04,725 - It depends wildly on the, the piece. 894 00:44:05,625 --> 00:44:10,005 And, um, it's a good idea to not get too 895 00:44:10,845 --> 00:44:12,925 attached to one genre or another 896 00:44:12,925 --> 00:44:15,365 because every client wants a different feel 897 00:44:16,185 --> 00:44:19,205 and every story demands a different sound. 898 00:44:19,545 --> 00:44:23,115 So, uh, I, I'm always, I always try 899 00:44:23,115 --> 00:44:24,755 to be open minded about it. 900 00:44:25,175 --> 00:44:29,145 Um, and generally 901 00:44:29,965 --> 00:44:32,245 the music we use, uh, 902 00:44:32,505 --> 00:44:35,205 and the clients that we have, have the budgets 903 00:44:35,205 --> 00:44:38,165 for stock music and not necessarily copy written music. 904 00:44:38,185 --> 00:44:42,805 Mm-Hmm. . So we have our stock music 905 00:44:43,675 --> 00:44:44,885 libraries that we use. 906 00:44:45,185 --> 00:44:48,005 Um, I'm a big fan of associated production music 907 00:44:48,005 --> 00:44:49,925 because their library is huge 908 00:44:51,165 --> 00:44:55,465 and their search capabilities online are 909 00:44:55,465 --> 00:44:56,785 really simple to use. 910 00:44:56,845 --> 00:45:00,625 But a lot of these companies, extreme music, there's a lot 911 00:45:00,625 --> 00:45:02,895 of companies around that, um, 912 00:45:03,915 --> 00:45:07,205 have all these now online libraries that are just great 913 00:45:07,205 --> 00:45:10,645 to use and you can quickly find cuts that work for you. 914 00:45:11,435 --> 00:45:13,685 - It's not expensive either, and it's worth a subscription, 915 00:45:13,685 --> 00:45:14,925 but it's worth noting as well. 916 00:45:14,945 --> 00:45:16,805 You can't just grab an artist's song 917 00:45:16,805 --> 00:45:19,125 and use it without permission or payment. 918 00:45:19,345 --> 00:45:22,125 So just a thing there, Hey, let's get to the end. 919 00:45:23,265 --> 00:45:25,435 What should resonate at the end of the piece 920 00:45:25,455 --> 00:45:26,755 and how do you make sure that it does 921 00:45:28,645 --> 00:45:30,575 - Well at the end of your piece, 922 00:45:31,155 --> 00:45:34,055 you've taken people on a short journey. 923 00:45:35,245 --> 00:45:38,705 And I wanna, I want every, everyone to feel it 924 00:45:39,415 --> 00:45:41,115 in their heart and in their throat. 925 00:45:42,405 --> 00:45:45,265 So if we're telling an emotional story, we, 926 00:45:45,945 --> 00:45:47,865 I almost want the piece to end 927 00:45:48,845 --> 00:45:52,935 and there's silence in the room, and that may be applause. 928 00:45:53,285 --> 00:45:56,935 Yeah. Like I, that, that is the ideal scenario. 929 00:45:58,295 --> 00:46:00,755 One of the proudest projects that I work on 930 00:46:01,335 --> 00:46:03,035 is the Gardner Dreams Talent Show, 931 00:46:03,485 --> 00:46:05,835 which is a show at Radio City Music Hall 932 00:46:06,105 --> 00:46:09,435 that happens every April and May or May. 933 00:46:10,245 --> 00:46:14,345 And it's a show that features kids who have gone 934 00:46:14,345 --> 00:46:17,065 through a certain hardship in life, 935 00:46:17,485 --> 00:46:19,345 and Madison Square Garden 936 00:46:19,405 --> 00:46:21,825 and the Garden of Dreams Foundation is affording them the 937 00:46:21,825 --> 00:46:24,945 opportunity to perform on stage at Radio City. 938 00:46:25,645 --> 00:46:29,905 And these kids, they go through an audition process, 939 00:46:30,325 --> 00:46:33,545 so they have a certain level of talent and ability, 940 00:46:34,615 --> 00:46:37,555 and some of them are a special talent 941 00:46:37,775 --> 00:46:41,195 and some of them have just a special heart. 942 00:46:41,815 --> 00:46:45,675 So our job, our production company, we, we do 943 00:46:45,675 --> 00:46:47,915 what you see on American Idol and the Voice 944 00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:49,875 and America's Got Talent. 945 00:46:50,015 --> 00:46:53,635 We produce all the vignettes that tell their backstory so 946 00:46:53,635 --> 00:46:55,475 that people, the viewing people 947 00:46:55,505 --> 00:46:57,155 that we stream the event as well. 948 00:46:57,175 --> 00:46:58,275 So the viewing audience 949 00:46:58,295 --> 00:47:02,315 and the people in the audience at Radio City have an idea of 950 00:47:02,465 --> 00:47:04,155 what this kit has gone through, 951 00:47:04,695 --> 00:47:08,075 and they're all invested by the time they are performing. 952 00:47:08,575 --> 00:47:11,315 And the energy in the room is just amazing. 953 00:47:12,015 --> 00:47:15,475 And it's through tho the power of those pieces 954 00:47:16,375 --> 00:47:17,475 and the guts 955 00:47:18,055 --> 00:47:21,975 and heart of those performers that transforms 956 00:47:22,805 --> 00:47:24,895 that audience and that, and, 957 00:47:24,995 --> 00:47:28,975 and the musical into just a remarkable place of love. 958 00:47:29,705 --> 00:47:33,045 So that after the vignette plays the, 959 00:47:33,185 --> 00:47:37,125 the most effective vignettes there is that pause of, wow, 960 00:47:38,265 --> 00:47:39,955 that kid has been through a lot, 961 00:47:40,455 --> 00:47:42,795 and then the kid is introduced and on stage, 962 00:47:42,795 --> 00:47:44,595 and then there's this raucous support. 963 00:47:45,135 --> 00:47:47,675 - Oh my God. Yeah. And - It's, um, it is truly 964 00:47:47,695 --> 00:47:48,695 - So emotional. 965 00:47:48,905 --> 00:47:50,875 - It's a truly amazing event, 966 00:47:51,215 --> 00:47:53,195 and we take great pride in 967 00:47:53,875 --> 00:47:56,535 participating in doing our part for that. 968 00:47:56,795 --> 00:47:59,935 But it's, it's those tellings of those human stories that 969 00:48:00,715 --> 00:48:04,095 we enjoy telling and have proven to be 970 00:48:04,115 --> 00:48:07,695 so effective in telling that story and, 971 00:48:07,755 --> 00:48:10,455 and really, um, perpetuating the efforts 972 00:48:10,635 --> 00:48:14,335 and the outstanding work of the Gardner Dreams Foundation, 973 00:48:14,835 --> 00:48:17,295 - Man, that that is when you know it's all worth it, right? 974 00:48:17,295 --> 00:48:19,015 When all the hard work and all the artistry 975 00:48:19,015 --> 00:48:20,375 comes together for something like that. 976 00:48:20,915 --> 00:48:22,615 Yes. Holy man. It pays 977 00:48:22,615 --> 00:48:24,495 - Off from the heart in a way that I, 978 00:48:24,735 --> 00:48:29,055 I couldn't imagine this career doing, uh, so many years ago. 979 00:48:29,115 --> 00:48:31,535 But this is, these are the kinds of projects that 980 00:48:32,265 --> 00:48:36,295 we're pursuing now that we, we want to tell human stories 981 00:48:37,325 --> 00:48:42,015 that connect to products and services and nonprofits 982 00:48:42,155 --> 00:48:45,695 and, uh, that has manifested itself in many ways 983 00:48:45,725 --> 00:48:48,615 through the Garner Dreams Foundation or Make A Wish, 984 00:48:49,315 --> 00:48:51,495 or United Negro College Fund 985 00:48:52,395 --> 00:48:56,335 or, uh, Monmouth and Pace Universities, the new school. 986 00:48:57,025 --> 00:49:01,695 We've done stories, uh, for all those entities and, um, 987 00:49:03,105 --> 00:49:04,285 and we're proud of them. 988 00:49:04,705 --> 00:49:06,325 - And I know you can see some of those, uh, 989 00:49:06,325 --> 00:49:08,365 pieces on Dutch productions on your website. 990 00:49:08,985 --> 00:49:11,745 - Yes. Thank you. - What do you do 991 00:49:11,745 --> 00:49:13,105 with all the footage you have? 992 00:49:13,885 --> 00:49:15,625 You can probably reuse it. Yes. 993 00:49:16,335 --> 00:49:20,115 - Yeah. Well, on my first year of reporting on my first job 994 00:49:20,295 --> 00:49:24,955 and in the business, I had to go down to a certain closet 995 00:49:25,175 --> 00:49:27,595 and throw out all the two inch tapes 996 00:49:27,595 --> 00:49:29,875 that were clogging the closet up. 997 00:49:30,275 --> 00:49:32,475 'cause they needed room for some coats or something. 998 00:49:32,475 --> 00:49:35,355 It was a coat closet. And I shudder to think about 999 00:49:35,355 --> 00:49:37,155 what those reels contained. 1000 00:49:37,895 --> 00:49:40,995 We realized now that those were all gold mines. 1001 00:49:41,455 --> 00:49:46,035 And now through technology we tend, 1002 00:49:46,295 --> 00:49:49,795 we have the ability to save entire shoots. The 1003 00:49:49,895 --> 00:49:52,155 - But just in like Dropbox or online or, 1004 00:49:52,705 --> 00:49:53,705 - Yeah. 1005 00:49:53,705 --> 00:49:55,955 Well, the chore, the chore is to how do we, 1006 00:49:56,135 --> 00:49:58,915 how do we take advantage of the work that we've done 1007 00:49:58,915 --> 00:50:02,115 with those shoots and use them in the future, 1008 00:50:02,255 --> 00:50:03,915 or have access to it in the future? 1009 00:50:04,175 --> 00:50:08,995 So generally, when you get a shoot in the material is logged 1010 00:50:09,495 --> 00:50:11,755 and you use it in producing 1011 00:50:11,775 --> 00:50:14,435 and cutting a new piece from those logs, 1012 00:50:15,465 --> 00:50:19,045 it might be done in Avid or in Premier and, 1013 00:50:19,185 --> 00:50:20,365 and you have those notes. 1014 00:50:21,385 --> 00:50:23,925 We store everything that we shoot on a server, 1015 00:50:24,305 --> 00:50:28,645 and then that is backed up on digital tape so 1016 00:50:28,645 --> 00:50:30,965 that we always have a record of everything 1017 00:50:30,965 --> 00:50:32,125 that we've ever shot. 1018 00:50:33,125 --> 00:50:37,985 And the notes done 10 years ago on a cl medium closeup 1019 00:50:37,985 --> 00:50:40,185 of Patrick Ewing on the court. 1020 00:50:40,445 --> 00:50:43,265 If I needed to, I could find again and pull up 1021 00:50:43,265 --> 00:50:46,065 and use, not worrying about the rights for now, 1022 00:50:46,125 --> 00:50:49,985 but that, that kind of accessibility is, is a available. 1023 00:50:50,245 --> 00:50:54,785 And what we offer our clients is the ability 1024 00:50:54,925 --> 00:50:58,705 to store all their assets online, give them access 1025 00:50:58,705 --> 00:51:00,945 to their own personal library online, 1026 00:51:01,155 --> 00:51:03,185 where they can see the, all the shots 1027 00:51:03,185 --> 00:51:04,625 that we've ever gathered for them, 1028 00:51:05,445 --> 00:51:08,625 and they can use download, 1029 00:51:09,335 --> 00:51:13,665 hire other editors that can work with that same access 1030 00:51:14,245 --> 00:51:17,065 to our server and put together pieces. 1031 00:51:17,125 --> 00:51:19,865 That's especially valuable today when 1032 00:51:20,525 --> 00:51:23,625 we do say a project for Monmouth University, 1033 00:51:23,725 --> 00:51:25,145 and we'll cut a commercial for them, 1034 00:51:26,415 --> 00:51:29,115 and we have all this material on the cutting room floor 1035 00:51:29,935 --> 00:51:31,955 or even longer versions of shots 1036 00:51:31,955 --> 00:51:33,315 that we've used in the spot. 1037 00:51:33,945 --> 00:51:36,035 - Yeah. - Uh, the raw material 1038 00:51:36,295 --> 00:51:39,875 and their social media team could have access to 1039 00:51:39,875 --> 00:51:41,275 that entire shot and, 1040 00:51:41,455 --> 00:51:43,035 and take advantage of the work 1041 00:51:43,035 --> 00:51:44,795 that we've already done with that shoot. 1042 00:51:44,795 --> 00:51:46,155 - Because they own it, right? 1043 00:51:46,465 --> 00:51:47,955 - They own it. It's their material 1044 00:51:48,095 --> 00:51:49,515 so they can just reuse it. 1045 00:51:49,915 --> 00:51:51,115 I saw how many times people 1046 00:51:51,115 --> 00:51:53,195 - Leave stuff behind and - Oh, yeah. 1047 00:51:53,215 --> 00:51:56,995 It, it offers them so much flexibility, 1048 00:51:57,585 --> 00:52:02,195 cost efficiency, the cost of the shoot that they paid for 1049 00:52:02,985 --> 00:52:04,955 will reap benefits for years to come 1050 00:52:04,955 --> 00:52:07,355 because they'll have shots that they can use. 1051 00:52:07,825 --> 00:52:09,755 Certainly Camp Scenic shots 1052 00:52:09,815 --> 00:52:11,755 and what have you for the rest of the time. 1053 00:52:11,955 --> 00:52:14,595 I mean, we've already had the seismic change when we went 1054 00:52:14,595 --> 00:52:16,955 from standard def to high def video. 1055 00:52:17,095 --> 00:52:20,715 And that seems to be the way we're gonna go for now. 1056 00:52:20,875 --> 00:52:23,475 I mean, now we're shooting things in 4K and eight k 1057 00:52:23,975 --> 00:52:28,155 and beyond, but in the end, we're still broadcasting in 16 1058 00:52:28,215 --> 00:52:32,295 by 9, 19 20 by 4 86 pixels. 1059 00:52:32,875 --> 00:52:36,255 So all these expanded dimensions can be reformatted for that 1060 00:52:36,395 --> 00:52:40,095 and forever look young and forever look new. 1061 00:52:40,965 --> 00:52:44,865 So unless the campus changes, which occasionally it does, 1062 00:52:45,595 --> 00:52:47,465 those shots can live on. 1063 00:52:47,765 --> 00:52:51,745 And, um, and it, it can be an invaluable resource 1064 00:52:51,805 --> 00:52:53,865 for any company or any entity. 1065 00:52:54,865 --> 00:52:57,645 Uh, any time they have a shoot, they own that material, 1066 00:52:57,675 --> 00:52:58,725 they can reuse it. 1067 00:52:59,305 --> 00:53:02,165 And there's, there's different applications that come up 1068 00:53:02,495 --> 00:53:04,405 after the fact that we say, oh yeah, remember 1069 00:53:04,405 --> 00:53:06,045 that shot? Let's use that again. 1070 00:53:06,725 --> 00:53:09,135 - Well, it's nice to know you offer the ability to do that 1071 00:53:09,135 --> 00:53:12,215 because I'm, I'm, even though I'm putting stuff in Dropbox 1072 00:53:12,235 --> 00:53:13,895 or in the cloud, I'm not using the right 1073 00:53:13,895 --> 00:53:15,135 naming conventions. And 1074 00:53:15,795 --> 00:53:17,775 - The, the thing I'll say about Dropbox 1075 00:53:17,875 --> 00:53:22,245 and other, um, large folder uh, 1076 00:53:22,245 --> 00:53:25,205 storage devices that people can share, they're all great, 1077 00:53:25,385 --> 00:53:28,125 but you don't have access to the metadata. 1078 00:53:28,545 --> 00:53:32,085 So when a shot is logged, you're including information, 1079 00:53:32,215 --> 00:53:37,205 names, day, time, place, ways that you can pull up the shot 1080 00:53:37,785 --> 00:53:41,565 and you can access that library specifically by that shot 1081 00:53:41,785 --> 00:53:45,165 by name or that day or what have you. 1082 00:53:45,705 --> 00:53:48,445 You can then pull that one single shot that you need 1083 00:53:49,065 --> 00:53:51,965 rather than a Dropbox where you say, wow, 1084 00:53:52,365 --> 00:53:54,165 I can't remember exactly what shoot it was. 1085 00:53:54,185 --> 00:53:55,645 You start searching through, oh my gosh, 1086 00:53:55,645 --> 00:53:56,765 hours, hours and hours of footage. 1087 00:53:57,345 --> 00:53:59,565 That's where you're losing time and money. 1088 00:54:00,305 --> 00:54:04,885 So by using the assets that Quantum has afforded us 1089 00:54:04,885 --> 00:54:06,085 through cat DV 1090 00:54:06,225 --> 00:54:09,165 and storage, DNA is, is what we use, 1091 00:54:09,745 --> 00:54:14,045 we can access shots on the granular level of, uh, uh, 1092 00:54:14,185 --> 00:54:17,485 by searching for them via metadata 1093 00:54:17,835 --> 00:54:19,405 that will save hours. 1094 00:54:20,075 --> 00:54:23,965 - Yeah. That's being able to find your stuff afterwards. 1095 00:54:23,965 --> 00:54:25,365 Because, you know, if you're a, 1096 00:54:25,365 --> 00:54:26,685 if you're a visual storyteller 1097 00:54:26,685 --> 00:54:29,565 and you're good at this, who knows, the company may ask you 1098 00:54:29,565 --> 00:54:31,285 to do it again, and you may need 1099 00:54:31,285 --> 00:54:32,445 to use some of that same material. 1100 00:54:32,445 --> 00:54:34,885 Well, Steve Deru, president of Dutch Productions 1101 00:54:35,465 --> 00:54:36,845 six time Emmy winner, I, 1102 00:54:36,925 --> 00:54:38,765 I see why you've got those Emmys on your shelf 1103 00:54:38,765 --> 00:54:39,845 that I see in your house. 1104 00:54:40,505 --> 00:54:43,885 Uh, thanks for sharing your insight on visual storytelling 1105 00:54:44,035 --> 00:54:45,525 from, from start to finish. 1106 00:54:45,525 --> 00:54:47,085 Steve, I really appreciate it. 1107 00:54:47,085 --> 00:54:48,965 And we're probably gonna come back to you 1108 00:54:49,025 --> 00:54:51,885 and ask more, uh, of you in the future. 1109 00:54:52,265 --> 00:54:53,445 So thanks again, Steve. 1110 00:54:54,075 --> 00:54:56,905 - Thank you, Tom. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.