Welcome to the Present Fathers podcast.
This is the show that focuses on climbing the mountain of fatherhood
together.
We believe that dads matter.
That's why this show is for you.
So gear up, dads. Get ready.
It's time to start climbing.
Hello and welcome to the Present Fathers podcast.
Our guest tonight is Drew Camp.
Drew is a husband, father, and he is a combat veteran.
He is also the founder and the CEO of the Epic Dad Company.
His mission is to change the world by creating epic dads.
Drew, welcome to the show, brother. How are you doing?
I'm doing great, man. Thank you for having me on.
Yeah, man.
I'm really looking forward to it.
I'm really glad we made this work.
I know we had some scheduling conflicts, and yesterday was my anniversary, too,
so kind of squeezing this all in. I'm looking forward to.
To learn from you, man. So.
Why don't we, uh, we kick it off at the start
a little bit about your family and kind of, you know, the basics of who is Drew.
Yeah.
I mean, so, first off, I'm a husband and father, and that's, you know,
that's first, right?
So I've been married will be 13 years in November,
so don't know why, but she's sticking around.
You know, So we'll celebrate that in November.
And then I've got three kids.
I've got two girls, seven and five.
And then I've got a son, Murphy, who's eight or nine months now.
So, yes, that's first off, just family man first.
And then, like you said, I'm on the founder of Techo
or the Epic Dad Company, and that's not my full time gig yet.
So we're growing a lot and I'm sure we can talk about that
and the growth of it and our mission.
But but that's about it for me, man, is just, you know, Dad ended up
trying to grow the business and try to change the culture.
I love it.
I think that this can be fun for us because I think you and I and the rest
of us here are all kind of aligned on very similar goals.
So this is going to be exciting.
Let's go into your early life a little bit, kind of where you grew up.
And then I know you joined the Army, I assume relatively young.
So I want you to tell us a little bit about that. Yeah.
So I grew up near Atlanta, Georgia, so a couple of Braves fans on the call,
you know, so shout out.
But yes, I grew up in Atlanta.
My my family was incredible growing out, to be honest with you.
So my my mom and dad are still married.
They're coming up. I'm 50 years.
So great example of what a husband wife relationship should look like
and how you need to treat your wife and things like that.
And you grew up playing sports.
So it was a big baseball football guy,
you know, throughout middle school, high school.
And then I actually
had the opportunity to go play baseball in college.
So I'm with you to school that at the state of South Georgia.
But it was about as far away as I could get from my parents
and still get the HOPE Scholarship in the state of Georgia.
So I chose Valdosta.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it was it was good, man.
It was it was a good experience down there.
But I think, you know, like.
Like what I what I took away from my dad because it's obviously a dad podcast.
It is really if you, if you like, big lessons, big takeaways
and what is it around work, work ethic.
So if if you were to ask my mom, like to describe
my dad in one word, it would be like relentless.
And I feel like that that's something that I definitely took from him.
And just growing up and seeing him when I was about,
I don't want to say seven or eight or so, he he left corporate America
to start his own company, you know, and had to work all the time.
So even though,
you know, maybe he had to travel a lot and he wasn't present all the time,
you know, I was able to see that right, of,
hey, that that work ethic of going out and getting it and make it happen
was just kind of instilled in me early on.
And then secondly, I kind of already mentioned it, right, was just that
the prime example to me of what a husband and wife relationship should look like.
So not a lot of guys have that opportunity.
So definitely bless there.
Yeah, that's that's, that's the dream, right?
That's what we're aiming for here.
And to try and make that occur more often.
So I'm really glad that you had that experience and congrats
to your parents on almost 50 years and to use your upcoming anniversary.
So for sure. May I appreciate it.
I mean, you know, life wasn't perfect.
Yeah, I would say like, like my dad needs relationship now.
I would I would say is good.
And, you know, my dad has always been my biggest advocate,
but I feel like most of us have, you know,
I guess like mixed feelings about our fathers, right?
That just to say the least. Right.
And with my dad, it's like, you know, there was always
this this path that I was going to expected to go down.
And with that work ethic came, hey, you're going to go to college,
you're going to get a corporate job, you're going to work 40 years.
And you know, it kind of like that's the path that was set before me, right?
And so,
you know, what I want to do is kind of
like every son does at some point is rebelling a little bit.
And so, like my journey into the Army, I think, was that that rebellion of like,
hey, I just got my degree, you know, And then, all right, cool,
I'm going to go join the army, you know, And my family's like,
What are you talking about?
It's something that I think I knew I was going to do all along.
But my my folks didn't think I was serious about it,
you know?
So I ended up graduating and then I enlisted
with a degree instead of commissioning right away.
And I said, Hey, you know, hey, mom, Hey, dad, I'm going to the Army.
I'm going to be enlisted, I'm going to go do infantry.
And they're like, What are you talking about?
You know, I just think that was the craziest thing ever.
But everything too big for me.
Yeah, the big day for me was like, you know, I want to chart my own path, right?
And so
I think that's where some of the friction with my
my dad and I still to this day comes into play.
Sometimes it's like, you know, I want to chart my own path
and I want to use the lessons that he's given me
to go out there and make stuff happen on my own.
And it may not be the path that he wants for me,
you know, but it's the path that I chose.
And so I think there's there's definitely some friction there.
I think we've overcome most of that,
you know.
But but yeah, growing up, you know, it's it's it's
nice to have that, you know loving family and support.
But at the same time it's difficult because you
you want to go out and prove yourself as a man. Right.
And I think a lot of
that has to go back to, again, our relationship with our father and like,
you know, is is what I'm doing to make him proud is what I
what I'm doing, what I want to do, or is it to make my dad proud?
You know, So I think there's a little bit of that.
Yeah. And it could be both right?
And actually it could be a whole lot of facets for why he joined the Army.
But maybe we'll get to that later.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about so, you know, obviously
basic training. What kind of stuff did you go straight to the 82nd?
Was that your first unit or.
Yeah, so I I'll tell you the whole the whole story, man, is crazy.
So I actually I met my wife in college and let her know my plans
about joining the Army, which she say she did not like,
but, but was very upfront about it like,
hey, this is this is going to happen, right?
This is my my plan. This is my goal.
And if we're to stay together, like I need to be okay with that.
So we ended up breaking out probably like five or six times, I think,
during college just based off of that.
And so,
you know, it didn't come as a
surprise when I joined, you know, And ultimately
we ended up getting married, like right after airborne school.
So she was obviously along for the ride.
Right. And supportive.
But my initial plan was she was the commission
was to go in as an as
a infantry officer, but OCS officer
candidate school at the time, she doesn't ten had a pretty big backlog.
And so I think it was about a a over a year wait time.
My dwell times like go that was yes.
And I was like I was working at a warehouse like box and stuff up
at the time year 2009 like the the crash and I could find a job.
So I was like, you know what? Like, I was going to go in my eyes.
I'll figure it out. You know, I get there.
So I ended up enlisting.
Yeah, I went down to Sandhill for bidding.
It's like the worst place in the world. Jordan I'm sure you're probably familiar.
I didn't go to basic.
I've been to airborne school, but. Yeah, okay.
Okay.
Talking about. Well, yeah, it was like the.
It's the most fun that you never want to have again is basic training.
And so did that whole jazz.
And then during basic training again, my plan was to commission
at some point in the near future.
And, and I ended up like graduating top of the class.
And they were like, Hey, do you want to go to airborne school?
I was like, I mean, sure, why not, right?
Like, sounds cool, get jump on planes.
And so, yeah, did airborne school down there
and they ended up graduating Airborne and half of our class
got sent to Italy for the 1/73 and half got sent to brag that you second.
And I was really hoping to get Italy, but I didn't.
So I got shipped up to the North Carolina to Fort Bragg,
did four years up there.
One tour to Afghanistan in 2012
was with four Brigade to 508
Parachute Regiment, which is disbanded now.
And they've kind of gone back to one of the other brigades.
But I mean, yeah, good experience overall,
you know, on the enlisted side in the military.
And then it sounds like you're we were we were in Afghanistan
like at the same time.
Yeah, I think I was there.
I got there November 2012, got home
like almost August.
It was like July 29th or something.
2013 I was in Kunar.
Okay.
Gosh, yeah, we missed the derby just a little bit.
Then we got in country like, right, The end in February
and I think we ripped out end of August or beginning of September.
So I guess we misjudged by a little bit.
But we were in Kandahar province like,
I don't know, 30 minutes or
so west of Kandahar City.
And so like the Arghandab River comes down really hard.
So we were kind of like Rio was basically from the Arghandab River
or from Highway
one to the our river, which is about ten miles or so.
And then we're kind of catty forward
right there by Helmand and then Panjwai to the south.
So it was, you know, good experience.
We can talk all about that.
You know, if you want to, But ended up doing that deployment,
getting back to the U.S.,
you know, up tempo was was extremely tough with the 82nd
zero was the 101st as well as sounds like you hit the sea like 30 times
practically lived there.
But yeah, thankfully I never had to go there.
I mean, we did antsy out in Fort Irwin, the National Training Center
in California, which is,
you know, a different experience, I'm sure, than then being, you know,
in Fort Polk.
But the experience in of itself, for sure, when it's like 110 degrees
and you're in the Mojave Desert and all that kind of stuff. But
yeah, I guess just to wrap up
kind of initial army stuff would just be, you know, So you were married.
Did you become a father while you're still army
or was the decision kind of, hey, you know, we want to start a family.
Let's let's leave. The Army was that kind of a decision?
Yeah, I mean the the decision point was was multi factor for sure.
So again, I wanted to go to Oceana and Commission initially.
I never got that opportunity to,
you know, it's that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Right.
But it was, you know, a command
team that said, sure, we'll let you go to OCS after this.
And then a new commander comes in and said, no, we'll let you go after this.
And then we had a deploying and then we end up coming back.
And so that the decision for me to get out was really on deployment.
Yeah, there there is a lot of great leaders in the military, right?
There's a lot of great ones,
but there are also a lot of not great leaders in the military.
And some of these parents I had on on deployment
just really made me think like, I want to go start my civilian career,
check the box.
I feel like I've served my country.
I want to go do different things.
And the decision point for me
was I was operating as a squad leader, as a E-4, as a specialist
squad leader in Afghanistan, and would not wasn't able to get promoted.
So as basically just having time in grade and stuff, well, not even that
was just hanging over my head.
A re-enlistment, you know, will promote you if you re-enlist, not you, you know.
And I was like, No, I might not do it, You know, like I got I got a degree, like,
you know, I'll be fine.
And so I'll never really that
decision was made for me when I had a conversation
with our first sergeant, and I'll leave him unnamed,
you know,
his his recruiting efforts failed to say the least.
But it was, you know, hey, we really think you should re-enlist.
And I was like, no, you know, I'm going to go start my civilian career.
And now on their conversations like, Hey,
you're gonna be fucking flipping burgers at McDonald's if you get out of the Army.
And I was like, No, I was.
I got a marketing degree. Like, I'm going to be fine.
I'll go to grad school, I'll get a good job, like I'm going to be fine.
So that kind of made the decision point for me.
It was like, these guys are really looking out for what's best in my interest.
Like they're looking out for what's best with the Army, and that's,
you know, there's something to be said for that as well, right?
You're part of an organization you need to selflessly serve.
But at the same time, we're just tired of it and shit on.
And to be honest with you, you know, just from bad leaders.
And so that was the decision point for me was to get out.
And we did intentionally decided not to have kids until we made that decision.
And so I ended up getting out.
We moved back to Georgia and I just went to work
and so I went to work for a company called Well, first I went to work for my dad
and he had a a sales rep company that I worked for.
And I was only there for, I want to say like nine months to a year.
And it was that same kind of thing,
right, of like falling under the path of your dad.
And so I was there for a little bit and was like, This is just not for me.
I got my own path.
And so, you know, we had some words there for sure.
My dad was actually ready to hand the business over to me
and I said, No, I need to do some of my own,
which is a tough decision, but I think is the right decision.
And so I ended up
going to work for a company called Deloitte Consulting.
So I was with Deloitte for a few years
on the consulting side in their federal practice
and at the same time decided to go back to grad school.
So I went to the University of Georgia to study business.
I got my MBA there
and then I'll never forget too,
like I was I was at Deloitte still,
and my main client was the Centers for Disease Control,
and I knew the whole like the whole time I was like, I'm just like
not have any impact on what I have in the world, like where I'm at
and like, like I just wrapped up business school
and I'm doing all this federal work and I'll ever forget the moment I was in a
closet at the CDC working on a project for for one of the offices there.
And I was literally, like writing a hurricane relief grant.
I was just like in a corner right typing it.
And I was just it hit me. I was like,
What am I doing here?
Like, you know, like, I'm not using my degree and not passionate about this.
So I ended up leaving there and then I went into industry
and went to work for Home Depot, has a big office in Atlanta,
so we're at Home Depot's corporate office for several years up until recently.
And and then, yeah, we decided to, you know, that
the time was right to have kids. Once I was out of the military.
And I think it was
well, I mean, I know the day it was April 15th of 2016
where we had our first child, our first daughter, Porter.
And so that was a huge turning point for me.
You know, just as as a man to become a father,
which we can dive into, you know, as deep as you want to.
Yeah. So appreciate you sharing all that.
And I actually wanted to just kind of say one thing.
So what?
I'm really sorry you had that experience with your leadership
kind of playing the game of like, you know, dangling it over your head.
I actually had the exact opposite experience,
and I think that that was one of the biggest blessings.
And the biggest lessons I learned
was that I had I'm very fortunate.
I had some really good leaders who didn't play that game with anyone, really.
And if it was better for that person to advance their career and have,
you know, just unique opportunities,
they didn't play the game of like, Oh, well, we need you here.
Is that the end of the day? It's still the army, right?
If they're going somewhere else in the army, it's still the army.
So I'm extremely fortunate that and I
and I want to make that clear to anyone listening.
This is maybe considering that or you're maybe in leadership.
If you play that game, you're only going to drive people out of the military
because what you're saying to them is that you're you're
you know, let's be honest, too.
If you're lower enlisted, like getting a promotion,
that's a lot of dollars every month, like 45 or 85 to 6.
That's that's a big move for a guy That opens up a lot of possibilities.
So if you're going to play
that game, you're literally holding back a lot of money from them every year.
So, I mean, just think of how shady that is. So
I'm going to go off on a huge tangent, but it really boils my blood to hear
like leaders doing that to subordinates because it's just a crappy game.
And if you if that happened in the civilian section or sector,
you'd quit your job that day, you know?
So yeah, I don't know why people think in the military that that that you can do
that it's Yeah and it's you know helping anyone like I said I had
I had examples of great leadership and examples of bad leadership.
So like I'm not like, sorry, you know, that that happened.
Right. It was you know, it is what it is.
And I took away what I could from it.
And if anything, I'm almost grateful for that as well,
because I've gone on to use that as a chip on my shoulder
to go, you know, excel in the military even further.
Right.
And so that same first sergeant again that I'll keep on named,
I've had to hold myself back from doing multiple things of like when I graduated
with my MBA of like shooting him out an invitation to the graduation.
And then, you know, I wanted to shoot him out, an invitation to OCS, you know,
when I graduated and get commissioned and have it be my first salute.
But I didn't because I'm a bigger man, Right.
And then now I just I just recently took a company command,
which has been my goal for basic training.
It's like draftsman based.
It was I get company command make captain and like that was like literally
when I was in basic training,
you know,
they had the little books that they give you that like,
you know, whenever you have downtime,
if you're not reading it, you're gonna be doing push ups.
And so I'd have it open.
And I remember I may still have it like in a top box somewhere, but
like I had the rank of captain circled and I just put like, get here, right?
And I was like, That is my goal.
And so like, if like I said, if anything, I see that as an opportunity to,
to have a chip on my shoulder just to drive me even further.
Isn't that great when your haters are your fuel
and you're like, All right, cool. Yeah, thanks.
Thanks for being my hater.
Because. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's awesome.
So I'm actually I'm actually not even a captain yet.
Okay, so your first assignment.
I've been a first attendant for five years now.
Oh, so you're like, we can go we can go into that as well
if you want to.
No, no, no, no, it's not. The guard is on the galley.
Okay? No.
So it is COVID 19 is what now?
It's all class cycle and everything and no man.
So I'm just on the refusal.
I got kicked out of the Army for almost a year,
and then they brought me back.
Yeah, they took it back.
I'm sure they begged me back and I said no.
And then they said, We'll give you company command.
And I said, All right, let's do it.
You know, So. So yeah, that messed it up.
So I've been at first Lieutenant for like a year now,
but today was a tough decision, man.
Tough decision.
That's a hard time for a lot of people, man.
It's a really weird time, man.
I can tell you.
We'll talk offline about that. Well, yeah, Yeah.
I was gonna say my wife are in the medical field, and
I kind of feel like I was forced into some things, and I get it.
That's all I'm going to say.
Yeah, Yeah.
We can talk off line on that all you wanted, George.
But that was the big.
So that was the big turning point for me.
And like the pivotal point for me to start voicing my opinions a little bit more.
Right.
And knowing that I have things to say, but I have been very reserved.
I've been passive
just because I've been in the corporate sphere, I've been in the military and like
I feel like it's not my place to say something, right?
But, you know, with with the whole 2020 be on
and a lot of the experiences that I had that I didn't I didn't agree with
and really seeing like
the decline in our culture from my perspective, especially for men,
that that really led me to found the company, you know, to go
and really start to get my voice out there.
And so that's it's been it's been a journey for sure.
Like I started my podcast and
gosh, I don't even what it was 2021, 2021.
I think.
And for me that like that was I had just been kicked out of the Army
or about to get kicked out of the Army.
And I was like, Dude, I'm going to start saying what needs to be said, You know,
and let the chips fall where they may like, I've got to have conviction.
I've got to stand on principle
and and say what needs to be said.
I mean, I couldn't agree more, man.
As as fathers,
we're the leaders not only of our family, but I mean, generations to come.
I mean, we had Nick Robertson recently should be active in our communities.
Yeah.
And he he actually made that point
is that we could be the starting point for generations to come.
And that kind of profoundly hit me.
And that's one of the things I love about this podcast is we are learning
from so many different stoic men and good, good men who are leaders.
And I have to say, man, like as a father, we need to be speaking up more
and we need to stand up to this cancel culture and quit worrying
about what other people think and start leading by example,
because this is what our children are watching us do on a day to day basis.
And if we're weak, they're going to be weak.
If we fold under pressure, they're going to fold under pressure,
like we're literally the people who are the pillars of their strength.
And if if we crumble.
So today
and it just it when you said that, it kind of it kind of hit home a little bit,
I think often about my son and
and how I want him to be since I'm about to have a little girl as well.
And I want him to be able to look after my girl
just in case, you know, because I may not always be around.
And I want him to know like, Hey, stand firm and what you believe in.
Do not let other people push you around.
If this is what you feel, go for it.
I don't care what the cost I'll always believe in.
Not always supports here.
And so will your mom and our families.
But like as men, I think that's something we really need
to start doing, especially right now in today's time.
And today with what's going on with this world.
We have to take a stance and do something
and set what we believe in 100 degree just and more than that to.
It's more than then your son.
You're standing up for what's going to be his sister, his mom.
But it is it is him looking at you and knowing
that you stood on principle and made the tough decision.
Right.
And didn't fold under pressure was something that you were convicted about.
And that is what really drives me at the of the day is I can't
I look in the mirror and be honest with myself about
if my son looks at me and the decisions that I make and the path that I'm on.
Is he going to be proud of his father? Right.
What I receive in my life.
And that that really drives me.
Yeah. I get emotional thinking about it, man.
It's like everything changed for me.
Like when I when I had a son
and not, like, nothing against my girls, right?
I love my girls to death, but at the end of the day,
I could still kind of hide in the corner, right?
And I could still have some vices. I could still not live up to principle.
And like the man that I knew
I was going to be with my daughters, I could hide that.
But the second that I found out as any son,
I had to look in the mirror and say, what type of man am I?
And what type of man am I going to become in order for?
Because I know my son is going to become that man. Right.
And that to me, just hit it hard.
And so I really had to take up, like I said, a hard look in the mirror
and say, the decisions that I'm making right now, especially
for that time we were just talking about, right,
those tough decisions was
when my son grows up and becomes a man and he looks at his father on his deathbed.
Is he proud decisions that that his father made? Right.
Is he going to know that his dad stood on principle, he stood on conviction.
He said what he believed
and not not only did he say we believe the act on what he believed.
And to me, man, that that that was just like the pivotal point
for me was like, finally, I'm having a son.
And it just changed everything for me. All right, So, Drew,
you got me
thinking a lot about feeling useful and being useful as man.
It's really interesting how our culture
has kind of taught many of us that we're not useful as men, right?
Women can do everything. They take care of the kids.
They, you know, take care of everything. So what do we do as men?
And I'm reading Arnold Schwarzenegger's book, The Useful right now,
and he talks a lot about that, how if we don't feel useful,
if we don't feel like we have a purpose, then we're not going to be very happy.
And so that's one thing that's amazing about a dad is you immediately are useful
and you have a purpose no matter what, you know.
And I think a lot of childless men don't have that kind of built in.
So what what do you think makes you most useful as a dad?
How do you feel? Like you're the biggest asset to your family.
Yeah, great question.
I'll I'll also take it back to like to the army and getting out
and kind of like preface where I'm coming from with this so that
the transition out of the military for a lot of guys is very tough
and I was no exception to that.
And I think the
reason why George raised his hand right, the reason why is because we wrapped
so much of our identity around that and then we move on to the next thing.
But we're still saying I'm still I'm still a soldier.
I'm still a soldier, Right?
That's what I do, you know.
But so like my and I'll take it back even further so
that that deployment in 2012.
So we are the the show that we were in and so in Afghanistan
was not that kinetic as far as like there weren't that many firefights.
Like there were some, but it wasn't like a daily thing.
But what we had to worry about was was disbanded IEDs.
And so like pressure plate IEDs
and, you know, you you kind of like would think that,
hey, if all the time you're having to walk in a file formation
and like put chalk down on the ground and make sure you're not stepping
across the chalk and like it would just be like in your mind,
constantly write of like, holy shit, I need to be like super vigilant here.
You know, over time it just kind of fades, right?
You like, get used to it. You're like, Well, fuck it.
If I step on a of an IED, like, whatever, you know,
And as shitty as that sounds like that's the truth, right?
You just, like, lose hope and, like, lose like, purpose.
Right?
And so I think
when I got out of the military, as I say, kind of thing, right, it was like
I just didn't have a purpose. I didn't know what I was doing.
I was just going to work,
you know, and didn't really have like a guiding principle or guiding
light or guiding values.
But like that, that like depression, you know, that
lack of purpose changed immediately when I had my kid.
Like,
I'll never forget we didn't find out if there's you mean a boy or a girl.
And so, like, she came out as a girl and I was like, Holy shit, man.
Like, I am a dad now.
Like, this is my purpose, right?
And so I honestly forgot the question
because, I mean, I'm just like going down the rabbit hole here.
But as far as like, being, was it about purpose and being useful as a dad?
Yeah.
What is it that makes you most useful as a, as a
not even as a dad, as a member of your family.
Got it. Got it. So,
yeah.
So why I went down that tangent to begin with was, was really around purpose,
around a vision
because I think that
the dad role in a family, there's a lot of things, right?
It's like it's more than just taking out the trash.
There's a lot more to that.
And I think one of the things that you need to do as a dad
is lead your family and craft a vision for your family about where they're going.
And so many dads are guilty of this.
And I was for a long time and still am in some instances,
is not having a clear vision, a clear roadmap of where we're going.
Right.
And that's our job as the dad is to you to paint that vision of the future
that we're traveling to as a family and to take them along the journey.
Right.
So that's number one is like having a clear vision for the family.
And then number two, I would say is probably values, right?
So it's our job to to not only have personal values that we live by, standards
we live by, but is how can we craft those family values, right,
so that our children and our wives can start to identify
with those values and we start reinforce those values to our kids and our wives.
And so, like we we do something in the camp household that I love
and we have come up with our family value set.
And I would encourage everyone to do this if you haven't already.
And like ours is super simple
because my kids are young, they're seven, five and 19 months.
So like as they get older, we'll probably stacks of our values on right?
But I want them to be able to remember these.
And so for the camps, it's super simple.
It is.
The camps are kind, the camps are strong and the camps are brave.
And the camps do the hard things.
We do the right things and we do the fun things.
And those are our values. That's it.
And what's awesome about this is like now that.
So it's my job to create those values, right?
And I love this.
Yes, George, you've got it down there. It's awesome.
So it's our job
to not only create these values, but this is our job to live by those values
and to be the example of those values, but then also to find opportunities
that we can reinforce that values that with our kids.
And so like we do something at dinner time,
we do something at bedtime that's gonna help them reinforce those.
So perfect example of this I love this example is
we went down to Punta Cana this summer for family vacation
and there was like a little water, like a little water park there for kids.
But some of the rides were kind of big, right?
They had like a straight down one.
You know, it's not like Whitewater or anything that's like a hundred feet high.
But still, like for a little kid, it's like it's pretty tall.
And my oldest daughter, Porter was was definitely scared to go down it.
She came out to me and said, like, hey, I want to go down it,
you know, She said, But I'm really scared, too.
And literally the only thing that I said to her right was, Hey, you're camp right?
But she said, Yeah, I said, We cancer brave.
And then that was it.
That was the end of the conversation.
And literally about 20 minutes later, she, she came and found me and she said, hey,
I went down the straight down slide that she just went by herself.
Right? And I was like, You went by yourself?
Are you serious? You know, I was. I want to go.
I get me.
I was like, Yeah, I went down because the camps are brave.
She was like, I just going up the stairs,
I I'll just say like the cancer prayed to cancer breast cancer prayed.
Right. And she went down it.
And so it was so awesome because like now
she started to identify herself as a brave person.
Right? Because the cancer brave.
And then now she's done a brave thing.
So, like, she's starting to stack these these little wins and these little, like,
votes for her identity that she is a brave person.
And so I think that that is a huge thing for us as dads is to really craft
like the value setting, the standards that we live by, reinforce those
with our children, but then also live the example of of those values, too.
Oh, I love that plan. Yeah.
Matt Boudreau talked about the same thing on the podcast
last month where what the Boudreau men do we do this, we do that.
And so I've been using that with my son.
And it's so much better than saying, well, you shouldn't do that because it's not.
Yes. When you say righty Burner men.
Yeah, we're Burning Man. Okay?
We're brave, we're strong.
So I'm yeah, I'm a huge believer in that.
That little shift in language makes a huge difference.
Yeah. And then to it. Sorry. Go ahead.
Oh, I was just to say, you also have to live
by like you were saying, if to live by. Yeah.
So you know,
they create said that if your kids see you doing the wrong thing
they also have to have the right to kind of respectfully call you out on
not living to the values you know that way it's it's not just an arbitrary
set of rules that well, it's a brief as well. Right.
But everyone in the family, it is the family culture.
It's not just something we said.
Yep. It's you set the standard. You live by the standard. Right.
And don't be offended
when your kids are a little bit older and they call out your bullshit
on the standard, which just happened to me before my seven year old.
And I say, You're right.
Right. Like Daddy shouldn't be doing that.
Like I said, I do this and that's not our value.
And that you're correct,
you know.
So yeah, I think is, is sort of building that identity set is is so important
because really, you know, there's so many external factors.
Right? When our kids go to school, they have like social media, whatever.
And I think they're trying to fit in with something.
And so like, what better way is it to add than to craft that ideal
standard, that value set, that identity for them to to identify
with right as the family unit?
And so they're not trying to go out and seek validation from other outside
sources that they want to try to identify with.
And so, hey, my kids are small, like maybe this blows up in my face
when they get older, but I hope not. And I don't think it will.
You know,
that they're they're going to identify as a camp
right when they start to get older and then they know exactly what a camp is.
Only camp does.
Do you tell your kids not to be campy when they tell jokes?
Yeah, I just tell them I feel like we got our
we got our dad joke quota for the episode.
Thank you. Yeah,
you're welcome.
Everyone listening?
We will not be quitting our jobs to do comedy careers,
but I wanted to jump in and kind of get us back on track here
because we were discussing realizations.
And you mentioned after you became a father, there was quite a few,
so you mentioned a couple, but what were some of the primary realizations
that came up after becoming a father that were just kind of life altering
that kind of aha moment, like, Oh man, I got to change this
or I've got to do this, that kind of thing.
What, what came up there?
Yeah, So I'll, I'll speak, I'll run onto on two fronts on, on what.
To be in a boy Dad. And then one I'll be a girl, Dad.
So as a girl Dad times to you first.
So there's a lot of realizations there.
And really for me it was a realization of like,
what is my job as a girl dad?
Right?
It's not just to like,
you know, support them and love them and comfort them, which like you're,
you're going to you as a girl dad. Right?
But like, ultimately at the end of the day,
my, my, my job as a girl, that is twofold.
And one of them is to make sure
that they are equipped to go out into this world on their own.
And that's a tough thing to think about.
And that's a tough thing to to realize as a as a girl dad, because you do want to
love them, support them and have them know that daddy is always going to be there.
But at the same time, hey, when they're 18
and they move out, I want them to be ready for the world.
So it's kind of the dichotomy there, right, of wanting to be loving,
wanting to be supportive,
but then at the same time is placing individual challenges in their way,
having tough conversations and making sure that they are equipped to go out
and lead their own lives. Right.
So that's one.
The other realization was my my job as a girl dad
is to set the example for the type of man that I want her to marry someday.
And so that made me take another good look in the mirror about
how am I treating my wife,
how am I showing up for my wife, how am I supporting my wife?
And I'll I'll be the first one to say I'm far from perfect, right?
I make mistakes every single day with this.
But that was a big realization for me was I am setting
the example ultimately for the type of man that I want her to marry one day.
So if that doesn't, you know, help you shift behavior
like I don't I don't know what will, you know. Absolutely.
Now, that's something I've been thinking about for sure.
What's something that you wish you had
known before becoming a dad
that would have prepared you better for fatherhood?
Oh, that's a tough question, man,
because
part of me, you know, is just like a fabulous go live, you know,
kind of like the Army mentality. Right?
But there's you get you get you can read a million books, which I did.
And they were great for like understanding how to change a diaper,
you know, or like, do a you know, a burrito swaddle or whatever.
But like,
it doesn't become real for the dad
until like, that baby is here the way that it does for the mom.
Right?
The mom has nine months, right, to kind of connect with that that baby.
And, you know, they have this emotional bond,
this physical bond, you know, for nine months that you don't have.
But but that changes the second that that child is here
and you're holding it in your arms. Right.
And so, yes, read all the books you can write.
Try to equip yourself, but ultimately know that like shit's
not going to feel real until that baby is here.
And and you're going to have to have a dramatic shift
as soon as they arrive.
Yeah, I remember here and my son's he's my first born up here.
The heartbeat and the sonogram, like I had a pit in my stomach almost immediately.
The first beat hit and I was like, This is real.
Like, we're there.
There's no point of return.
We are, we are go And so yeah loves Yeah.
And it's incredible.
It's such a good journey.
So I've seen that How good
You know every kid is different every dynamic is different your
your you know people are going to give you all this advice to and
take it all with a grain of salt.
But for me, the most beneficial thing was kind of just like,
if you've got a rhythm that's working, don't don't change it.
Like find a rhythm that's working for your for your little family, especially
if it's your first and if it's working, just keep doing it, you know,
because I think it's a lot, you know,
the temptation is like you're saying, read all the things, Listen all the things.
Then it's like information overload, right?
You're going to be tired. You can be stressed.
You're it's all new to you.
So at some point, you know, one foot in front of the other, right back to the
the effort. Do it live kind of meds.
Yeah.
Sometimes that is the best mentality at times so
yeah and I think to you I mean like I mean what would be nice to know ahead of time
I think like in a very like tactical sense would be like
what does the first six months look like right?
Because to be honest, it's it's pretty brutal.
You guys would probably agree, Right.
You know, babies waking up all hours of the night like you're having to do.
You know, the moms have to see if you guys are bottle feeding.
You're doing that like,
you know, and honestly, the kid wants nothing to do with you
for like the first six months. And so
you have to be very proactive in like, how can you help support the family?
Because ultimately, you know, the kid's gonna be looking at mom
for comfort, for food, for everything, right?
So like, what can you do to help?
And so, you know, what can you do, right?
You can change diapers.
You can you can wake up and feed a bottle if you're doing bottle feeding right.
You can pick up the slack around the house and make it a little bit easier
for your wife.
You can change that.
You know,
you can do the laundry, you can do the dishes, you can do the vacuuming.
You do all the things that your wife did before you had a kid. Right.
Just to make it a little bit easier for her
because ultimately, like your job in this first six months is to support your,
you know, your spouse.
Ultimately be present for her. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
I call it just being the logistics coordinator at that point.
Yeah, I did groceries, finance, I did the house, I did everything.
All she did was take care of our kid.
And it's I mean, we averaged 3 hours of sleep
a night for eight months because my son had colic really, really bad.
And yeah, it can be brutal, but it's it. Man.
Is it so worth it?
Yeah.
And I would say she was like level set expectations.
Like I'm a big fitness guy, right?
Yeah.
I like to go to the gym, work out all the time, and,
you know, life is going to be different when when you have have kids,
especially young children.
And so you kind of have to level set your expectations on on what you can do
and what your priorities are at the time that you have young kids.
Because times you be limited, you know, you're not going to have like two
and a half hours to go to the gym and you can't use the girls anymore.
You're not to figure out a way to get done.
And, you know, probably means you're gonna get a little bit less sleep,
but you don't have to shift your lifestyle,
you know, to to really become a parent.
So just I think. Yes, right.
Yeah.
I want to get back to you talking about
being a girl, Dad, just because I'm I'm about to hit that milestone,
I think that I would like
to encourage other dads who are already like a boy dad,
or just not even a father yet and are about to have a girl.
I plan to use this time personally just because of all
the great fathers we've had on the podcast as a time to kind of improve myself,
because I know I feel my wife on a lot of things.
And you, you said a great thing, which is set the example
for the man that you want your wife, your daughter to marry.
And you know, you also need to start remembering like who
you were to your wife.
And that's that's a hard thing,
especially when you have a kid because like you said, that first month,
it's the hardest month of your life, but it gets better week by week.
And it's so hard because you're both exhausted.
Nobody's doing each other favors because you're you know, it's new to both of you.
And you know, you both don't get sleep and you don't know to to pass it off
to one another.
Yet you have your second kid, you know,
nobody's doing it for the period, which is a bummer, too.
Yeah,
well, that too. But
I mean that.
And then I just wanted to also say, like, if you're having a girl,
something that my father in laws, a financial planner
and not a lot of guys think about this, but something that you need to do
is set a little of money aside.
As soon as you find out you're pregnant, the female,
and go ahead and start a fund because you're going to, you know, wedding fund.
That kid is going to get married one day
and you don't want that to come up and be like, oh, well, that he's broke.
Sorry. You know, So
just two pieces of advice I would I would want to give as I plan to, one,
take that that time to better myself from my wife, because I know I have failed
a little bit in my first child because like we said, it's being tired.
It's not always being there for each other and not having the same relationship.
Everything shifts like you said, it's it's different.
I can't explain it other than that for for new time dads.
But just to give a little perspective, I think those are two things that I
feel like would greatly help any dad
coming into this adventure, especially with a girl. So.
All right, Drew, let's move on to Ted Co.
So first question, what makes an epic dad?
Oh, man.
So what makes you have a dad is a great question.
So I think the kind of what we talked about a little bit before right
it every dad is someone that that really crafts the vision
for their family and leads leads the family
and is going to guide him along the way.
So we have four pillars in our company
that we try to do to help dads with it, to level up on it.
And we call our lead for framework.
So I would say an epic dad is someone that has these four pillars dialed in,
and that's going to be their body,
their relationships, their mind and their finances.
And so I would say if you have all four of those dialed
in, like you're being an epic dad.
But but more than that, I think
like an epic dad like this all changed when I had my son.
I get it. Like it was a huge turning point for me, right?
Because I love the mirror
and knew that I was not being the type of man that I want my son to become.
And so I did a lot of homework, a lot of research on that
as to like, what is my role as a man?
What is my role as a father?
And it really came down to three core principles
for for me that would make an epic dad, and that is number one is an epic.
Dad accepts responsibility and epic dad.
Number two and Epic dad projects passivity.
And then number three would be an epic.
Dad leads courageously
and I'm not going to take credit for those that those come from a fantastic book
by name, Robert Lewis called Raging A Modern Day Night.
So anybody is a boy, Dad, I would highly recommend picking up that book.
And those to me
would be like the three pillars that like make it epic, Dad.
And then I think
finally an epic dad knows that he needs
to surround himself with other men that are going to challenge him,
and he understands like the, you know, the purpose and the intent
and really like the power that comes in community
of, you know, setting a standard or holding yourself to that standard,
having other men that are going to hold you to that high standard.
And so if you distill it all down, right, it's a responsibility.
He he rejects passivity. He leads courageously.
He is focused on his body, his relationships, his mind, his finances.
And he surrounds himself with a community of men
that are going to sharpen his blade.
Yeah, we've we've talked about that a lot.
So I'm really.
But it's awesome to hear that that's one of the pillars of your company
and might be the most important one, honestly,
because I think in a modern age that's kind of
we've gone all over on this topic, but it just seems like modern men,
more than any other group of men through history, are more isolated.
I don't know all the causes for that, but it's it's definitely a problem.
A lot of stats to kind of back that up.
So, yeah, that's that's one of the ways that we start combating a lot of the,
the issues that are passed down through generations is, is not to isolate.
So that's pretty good.
I wanted to also ask you about, you know, kind of what is Ted Co
what's the founding principles for it and kind of what led you to ultimately
get it going in the first place?
Yeah.
So take your stance for the Epic Dad Company.
Take care just for short.
But like at its core, like we are a 100% natural, 100%
transparent supplement company specifically for for dads.
And so like our core avatar, like core customer is like is like me
three years ago, right like that, the dad and I looked in the mirror
and he's like, I just know that I'm not being the man I supposed to be.
I'm not being the father I supposed to be.
I want to step up.
And so when Dad raises their hand,
they want to go on that journey like we want to be there to support them
and we support them with with with supplementation, obviously.
Right.
So along that journey,
you have to get in better shape to make sure that you are being sound
mentally and spiritually like we have supplements to help you on that journey.
And then additionally,
we have another pillar of the company, which is really your community.
And so that's that's where our four pillars come in, right?
Or body place. It's my finances.
That's where our epic debt framework comes in.
That's a six pillar framework that we walk guys through on.
You know, if you do raise your hand,
you want to make some changes is like this is the foundation
of how you can do that and start becoming that big debt.
So we kind of have this those
two pillars of the company and that ultimately, like our mission
statement, is to change the culture by creating more epic debt.
And so if we could do that,
you know, really how we're going to do that is one date at a time
on an individual basis.
And we've kind of talked about this before, right?
But like like politically know, I feel like
everyone is just waiting for somebody to come along and, like, fix everything.
Right?
And like, oh, you know, we need the savior to come in and, you know, round up that.
Yeah, it's it's not going to happen.
It's not like, like we need to understand that.
Like,
if we want change,
we have to effect change on an individual basis in our own lives.
And so, like, that's what the company is about
is like we want to change the lives of fathers to step up and lead
and become the husbands fathers.
And then they're called to be one at a time.
Because we know that epic dads are going to raise epic children, right?
So if we if we future cast, you know, two, three or four generations down the road.
Right.
And we raised epic kids,
our kids are going to instill those same values to their children.
Right. My grandchildren, to my great grandchildren.
All of a sudden, that's how we change the tide, our culture.
Right. And so it's a it's a long term play.
And then additionally is if we're able to help the individual dad
level up, become more present, become more engaged with this with his family,
that is going to have a cascading effect
not only to his family, but across across the community.
So like perfect example of this is like,
let's say you're in the grocery store, right?
And you're you know, your kid is two or three or whatever.
And like as all children do, they throw an epic fit.
They want a candy bar or whatever, right?
And so they're throwing a fit like, I want this dad, I want this dad like
like we have two options at that point in time, right?
Like, we can respond or we can react emotionally
to a three year old child and give an example to our dad that
that's looking right, that like, hey, that's how dads act, right?
That's how we respond. I'm doing the right thing.
Or we can take a much more intentional approach
of responding to our child in a calm, passive manner,
you know, calming him down, doing some correlation with him.
Right.
And then all of a sudden,
the dad that that maybe has, like, you know, just this this
just adds like a ton of stuff going on.
It's like that you have no idea about right.
Like he sees that example that you set out in public and.
You have no idea what his or dad is going through. Right.
But by you responding in that manner, that is going to light a fire in that
that other father to know that like,
man, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing, right.
Like I need to step up and make a change.
And so, like you, the power of the individual is exponential.
And I feel like we we delegate this to, you know, our media
leaders, to our politicians, you know, to create this change, but ultimately by us
just lovely up as an individual focusing on our family,
getting our house in order is going to have like huge results on society.
Yeah it's
it's really passing the buck right so many people if you're not responsible,
then you can't be held accountable for the situation around you.
Right.
It's really easy to say, oh, you know, that
that frickin politician, it's their policies that did this to us.
Like, well, is it really like, could you do something about it?
So I love that man.
I think your your mission is like
totally aligned with what we're doing with our podcast here in this group here.
So I love it, man.
With the Ted Go, you also have some pretty sweet merchandise, right?
So I'm going to solo.
Yeah. Yeah.
Do you that?
Yeah, Yeah.
Do you that dad, bro.
Awesome. Yeah.
So yeah, we are so like we have listened.
We have three kind of verticals of business, we have supplements,
we have community coaching, and then we have apparel.
We've got a bit all in on supplements at the V.A.
company, which is great.
I'm a physical product guy.
That's like my background, so I like having a concept in your brain
and then like seeing that manifest into reality
and like somebody holds their hands and use it and get utility out of it
is like the coolest thing in the world.
To me, it's like, I love the physical product side,
but we have recently started in kind of
more on community and more on coaching and that has been incredible.
Again, it aligns with our mission of like helping individual dads.
And so it gives us the opportunity
like dive in the weeds like one on one
with guys like create transformations not only physically,
right, but really walk them through our efforts at framework,
have them turnaround their life is in line with our mission, which is awesome.
And then the third is apparel,
which is cool stuff for dads, right?
So cool T-shirts, you know, cool hats and swag stuff like that, Right?
I'm wrapping it tonight, too. I'm going to show this one off.
Yeah. We want to.
Young men make dads meet again. Yes.
Got to love it, man.
I got
I wore this to like
a little men's conference thing, and it was a massive hit with everyone.
So get design.
Well done.
All right, seriously, though, with the rest of the company.
So what what is kind of your your future vision for where you want to get to?
I know you've talked about the three branches that you got going now. And
I guess also like with the coaching, what who is kind of your ideal person?
Who how do they get in touch with you?
What's the best way to start that for sure. Yeah.
So all the supplements I'd we have one right now I'll, I'll plug it.
I've got it right here.
So bam take your pre-workout.
There it is.
So we have one prior to the market right now it's our take out pre-workout.
And this, this was a long time in the making.
I am not a formulator by trade.
I just like supplements.
I, I think my first pre-workout was in airborne school.
I took Jack three and I did 800 pushups in a row.
I can see sounds on that stuff.
And it was
like, it's illegal now.
I'm pretty sure.
But so me and freeware guys go way back.
But I've always been a supplement user, right?
It was like, Hey, how do we formulate something
like specifically for dads, Right?
It's a little bit different in the market
that speaks to our core customer, gives them like what they need.
So I went down the rabbit hole on this, I think got word
like 40 different free workouts just tried all of them, whether I like it or not.
Like we polled our customers. You know what, what do you
what's most important to you about a free workout, etc.
So we kind of all the homework
and then because I'm not a formulator like we work with manufacturers,
like it's not me like mixing up stuff in my kitchen, you know,
like we work with a legit manufacturer
to create this.
And so we launched our version one
back at the end of 20
or I guess, yeah, the end of 20, I think it's been a while now.
So we kind of lost the product.
We got feedback, we made some tweaks, the formulation of the flavoring,
and then we launch this one in March of this year.
So that was kind of taking off like a rocket ship was really cool.
And now we have people ask, us all the time like, like what's coming
next, right?
So I probably have about 40 products
that we'd like to launch, but just any protein.
So, hey, we may have we may have something in store for you.
All right.
But we've got about 40 like on the roadmap.
Right?
But near-term, we probably got like five or six.
So I'll
kind of let you in on a little bit inside baseball.
So we've got a protein coming right here first.
That's right.
We've got a protein coming.
It's in the works.
Excuse me. We've got
we've got a multivitamin in the works as well.
And then additionally, we've got greens in the works.
And then what is the last one we've got
in the works that's pull up our product roadmap.
I know those three are near term for sure that like we're
we're formulating right now, but Athena, today, like we
on the supplement side, we want basically to
you know, like I said,
when a dad was on a journey, when he's like, I want to be a better dad,
we want to be the go to brand for supplementation to help on that journey.
And so, like, the first form for dads is like what
I always say internally with the company, right?
So that's where we want to go.
We want to be like the supplementation provider for for dads
and then on, on coaching and community side.
So again, this is new to us, but ultimately we want to get down
in the weeds with guys to have physical transformations and have,
you know, really like mindset transformations for them to level up.
So we've just started on this and we really hone in on the physical aspect
because I it's Bedros Killian who says that,
you know, physical fitness is the gateway drug to personal excellence,
which I love, right?
Because if we build the discipline
that it takes to get into shape like that is going to cascade
across the other other every other area of your life.
So we start there.
So we help guys get in really great shape and their life improves because of that.
And then we also have a
community called the Epic Dog Crew that we've just launched here recently
that's really like an accountability group, right?
For guys. Like we said, iron sharpens iron.
And so we've got to,
you know, created that platform for guys to connect to often through our framework
to make sure that they are hitting daily wins and daily targets
and daily accountability, that they're stepping up
in their areas of their body relationships, mining, finances.
And so it's it's a very new vertical for us, but it's
growing quickly, which is really cool what is having an awesome impact.
And then our payroll, who knows, man, sky's the limit.
You know, I'm pretty creative, you know, killing out with with a dad slug.
And so we'll see where it goes.
I were the the girl dead AF shirt. Yes.
Two weeks ago.
Yeah, two weeks ago.
And it was that was also a pretty massive hit.
So I love that I got the sticker to I put on like, everything.
I love being adjusted just off the ship out a girl.
That sticker, man. Yeah.
There you go.
I think Brandon's got something for you.
Yeah.
So, you know, Ben, being the founder of a company and whatnot,
how do you balance your
your work life and your family life now with all this going on?
Not well.
I probably read your book
now, but in all seriousness, like
I I've tried every technique I think like
imaginable because I'm balancing two careers at the time.
Right. And this company is growing pretty quickly.
So I've gotten to the point in the business
where I have realized that I'm the constraint in the business,
and it's why we're not growing any more that we are.
And so that's been a tough pill to swallow because as the founder, like,
I want to do everything because I do it perfect, right?
So I don't want to like, hand off the reins to anybody.
So I've had to come to that realization and start thinking about
what does a team look like
and how can I outsource some things that should probably not be on my plate,
you know?
So I think if you can find someone that does it 80% as well as you do
hired out, right.
And then go on to more strategic things and so like that,
that's what I'm going to do.
Growing pains with that right now.
And so that that's going to give me back some of my time to be a little
bit more strategic.
And then honestly, like
is is what I try to do is have like
focus batches of time, a very intentional time.
And so like I've got a little timer here, like right here, it's set to 45 minutes.
That was from earlier today.
It's totally just kitchen timer. Right.
But what it does is I remove all distractions
and I become very focused on the one task at hand.
I get that task done right, and then I'll move on to the next day.
So I think when we try it, like the word balance to me
is like it's I don't know, there is
I, I,
I feel like in a brand you may like get offense to this, right?
Because you're like, yeah, book on balance, right?
But like, I feel like balance is, is something that we try to achieve,
but we don't do it well.
And maybe that's what the book is about, right?
Is like,
how do you balance all these things by not being focused on everything at once?
And so what I've found that works the best for me is to have, like I said,
focused, intense bouts of time to get things done without distractions
and do that task and move on to the next thing.
And so, yeah, too many times limited, right?
Like the thing that I will not sacrifice on as much as I can is family time.
And so work to me.
Looks like getting up super early, getting a workout,
getting that first batch of time to get my my critical task done for the day.
You know, that may be like pushing out content that may be doing a podcast
or whatever the case is, and then it goes to transition to regular work, right?
And then at the end of the day, kids are down.
You know, we have some family time with the wife.
And then I may work from ten to midnight right?
Yeah, just very focused, intentional time.
So that would be the big thing around my balance is just being focused on it.
And the other thing too will be knowing what to focus on,
you know, because
they're going to be like key things in your business that drive the ball forward
and there's going to be things that are just fluff, right?
And so it's like knowing what KPIs you need to track
and what is most important
to move the ball forward in your business because you're ultimately
not gonna be able to get everything done like you're not.
And that's just the nature of the beast, you know.
So I would say
those two things for me is like focus time and then know what to focus on.
When you're at that time.
It's good you're learning these lessons not just from business
because it's going to help you a lot as a company commander.
Oh yeah. Already? Yeah. It's like, yes.
The first lesson is you can't do it all.
Yeah, and that's it.
They do like with my corporate career, right? Like I was.
I was a merchant, which
is ultimately like, kind of like a company commander, the decision maker.
Right.
It's like all decisions filtered through you and, like,
you're never going to get everything done.
You know, you're not right.
And so you have to be able to prioritize
like what's important, what can be pushed out a little bit
and what needs the decision right now.
It's just that, you know, that that
is that exercise of prioritization has been key.
They dig in kind of a little bit of a harebrained question for you.
What do you think culturally is causing men to struggle so much?
You know, I think
maybe in the last couple of years, but it seems like there's a big spike
in a lot of issues, specifically with men in kind of Western civilization.
Yeah. So what's causing that?
I have a lot of thoughts on that,
which probably talk for another hour and a half on that episode Part two.
Yeah.
So, you know,
I'm under the impression and you guys may agree or disagree,
you know, that's okay either way if you do, but I'm under the impression
that there is a deliberate, intentional attack on masculinity
again, for a very intentional reason. Right?
That is because weak passive men are much easier to control.
And who is controlling us?
That's where we can have a debate on. Right.
But ultimately in the day, right.
If you outsource.
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
It you know, if you are being passive, you are being weak.
If you don't have sovereignty, you're much easier to control, right?
You're dependent on other people.
And so I think that is why right.
When you look at our media, when you look at television, when you look at,
you know, anything you're seeing, Right.
I mean, it it's it's shows The dad is like the Homer Simpson effect, right?
Is what I call it.
And so like when you go back and look at movies, you know, in the eighties,
seventies, eighties or ever, the dad was like the hero, right?
I mean, he's like super jacked and buff, like he's making all his money.
The family, you know, he's like, he's got all the masculine traits, right?
Of like, like we talked about, like,
right, like leading courageously accepting responsibility or rejecting passivity.
But then now, you know, anytime you see a dad on TV, like outside of
Louie, believe it or not.
Yeah.
And that's who I have the baby, right?
I know.
It's like being me that starts it
outside of that one example.
Yeah. The dad's like a blubbering idiot, right?
He has no idea what's going on.
The mom has taken control of everything, right?
That we have delegated to to our wives and to to women in society.
And that is the reason why, is because weak men are easier to control.
And that's a very intentional effort that's going on.
I can't agree more, man.
That's that's so on the spot.
Like I sat there and thought about that the other day.
When's the last time I thought about like seeing positive father figures?
Because I was let my son see of all things we were watching, boy.
And then we started watching Earbud and the kid that didn't have a father figure.
And I'm like one was movie made.
And then I started realizing, like,
you stop seeing father figures or you started seeing weak father
figures in the 2000s in the nineties, eighties and seventies,
you saw a strong masculine, you know, get to the Choppa
kind of started those kind of guys married.
Yeah.
And now it's just like just passive men
and it's like, No, that's not what a father is.
I'm telling you, if you come up, you roll up on a father
who's a real father, an actor for these days, I'm telling
you'll realize who those seventies, eighties and nineties fathers were.
And I feel like that's what we need more of.
And I couldn't agree more man.
Like it's it's what they're trying to push is that men are weak we're not stoic.
We're not, you know leaders.
We're not anything anymore.
And if we're masculine, God forbid, we're toxic.
You know, at that point we had that conversation with Nick on our last episode
and it's like, no, there's masculine men and then there's toxic people.
Like there's there's a complete difference.
So yeah, it's I agree with you, man.
That couldn't have been said better because fathers are just not put in a
good limelight anymore.
Yeah.
And some of that too.
Whether or not it's intentional, I think I know I personally
brought some of those ideas onto myself.
I thought that it was better to be more passive
because that's what society told me and that's what a good husband
does, is he kind of lets his wife lead and takes care of all that stuff.
And that's been an interesting process
of unlearning that and realizing that that leadership is okay as a man,
you know, it doesn't make you toxic, it just makes you masculine.
And so I think a lot of that is us accepting that.
And it's easier, right?
You pass the buck, you go, Oh, well,
if my wife makes the decisions, I don't have to worry about.
It wasn't my fault.
If something goes wrong, it wasn't me, it was her, you know? So
we got to take some blame there, too.
For some for how? Some of this stuff has gone down.
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
Steinem It's this woman's fault, you know?
Yeah.
So, yeah, I think we all pretty much mostly agree on what you said.
True,
other than kind of what you're doing specifically with Ted Co,
you know, at large, what can we do you think men need to do about it.
Oh, yeah.
So, I mean, kind of what we touched on before, right?
I mean, the
the most important thing that you can do is to level up your own life, right?
Like stop thinking about the broader problem
and stop thinking that someone is going to have to parade in.
Right.
Whether it's, you know, a politician or a media figure and save the day for you.
You need to do the three things that we talked about.
Right.
In order to become a masculine man, you need to accept responsibility.
You need to reject passivity, and you need to lead courageously
and you need to take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself,
you know, especially if you have kids.
You listen, this is is hey, am I being the example of either one,
the type of person that my daughter wants to marry one day?
Or am I being the example of who I want my son to grow up as?
And so we need to do those things.
We need to stop focusing,
like I said, on the broader picture of focus on getting our own house in order
and making changes individually,
because what's going to happen is you are going to,
like I said earlier, is that change that you make in becoming
an dad is going to have generational impacts, right?
To your kids, to your grandkids, to your great, great grandkids.
But then also by putting this man, as you want to set example
for other dads to follow, right, they meet.
And so I'd say the things is is,
you know, really take those principles to our guys.
It's like this is this is how you need to be to be a man
is you need to be a good
father, is accept responsibility, reject passivity and lead courageously.
Yeah, man that's that's it.
Get to it.
So asking now kind of switch just general father advice.
If you could only give one piece of advice to dads, what would it be?
Oh, man.
One piece of advice to dads.
That Disney man, that is a doozy.
That is it easy.
I would say the
the one piece of advice would be
that, you know, no, dad is perfect, right?
Everyone is going to make mistakes,
you know, And your job, right, is to have the intention
to become the best dad you can be right to to lead your family.
And you're going to make mistakes along the way every single dad does.
But if your intention is is pure and to be the best dad you can be
and your action follows that intention like you're in the top 1%.
As a dad,
you know?
But by just being there, showing up to do the best you can.
Absolutely, man.
And we actually have a question.
We ask every father, and I want to ask it to you
what is a story or something that you've learned
or just as a father, something that stood out to you
like your favorite memory, core memory, whatever it may be as a father,
that you could kind of go into effect with this man there.
There are way too many
that I could write off for forever, like core memories.
But I'll just highlight one that literally happened, I think, two weeks ago.
And so my oldest daughter, seven now,
and any bit of baby that she had is gone.
She is a little girl now,
which is hard to accept.
And so we're in basketball right now.
We're doing the I9 League,
which is we're like setting her up because we're to play
basketball in the winter and it's like more competitive.
So we're doing I9 as like a starter and all it is
is like you practice for 30 minutes, then you go play for 30 minutes.
And so once a week, so pretty, you know, pretty low speed,
but they have uniforms.
My, my younger daughter's playing as well.
So when she was out on the court and they were playing, my older daughter
was practicing on the side, you know, it's usually
dribbling the ball off practice shoot and stuff like that.
And you know, this vivid,
I guess like future cast vision just like came into my mind, right,
of seeing her playing basketball in high school
and seeing like the type of woman that she's going to become.
It's just like I saw it, like, painted clear as day.
And that to me just really hit home of like,
you know, she is growing up so fast.
She's seven now, I'm
going to blink and she's going to be 17, you know, in high school.
And just knowing that like like we just talked about.
Right.
Like I can feel good about myself and how I'm showing up as a dad
and knowing that my attention is pure and I'm going to make mistakes.
But at the end of the day, you know, she knows that I love her,
I support her, and I'm proud of who she is and not me.
Being proud of her is not dependent upon what she does, right.
I'm proud of who she is and she knows She knows that.
And that was just a core memory man, just like burned into my brain.
Even even though it's a future cast vision, it's just like either forget that
it's powerful men and I mean, that's it
ties into what you've been talking about so much too, is like
men, you need to look ahead and you need to realize these things
because if you're always caught in the exact moment, the right now,
something's going to catch your family off guard right?
And it's your job.
You're the one who has to be keeping your eyes on the horizon, head on a swivel.
And it's not all bad things. It's also good things, right?
If you're head down, you may miss really great opportunities, your family,
because you weren't looking ahead and thinking through options. So
that's it's almost like a premonition you had with with your daughter.
And that's such a beautiful kind of just encapsulates that responsibility.
We have to have that vision and to be forward thinking,
not with a negative thing, with a very beautiful thing.
So let's thanks for sharing that,
Justin.
I think you one final question, right?
Yeah.
I just wanted to ask if you could pass, like one thing
onto your children, a piece of advice to your children specifically.
What would that be for you that you wanted them to know?
Yeah.
So there is this one piece of artwork.
I'm not sure who did it, but you see it all over the internet and I think it
is it just speaks like truth to parenthood.
And the visual is the dad, you know, is on the right hand side
and it's I as a son or daughter, but it's on the left hand side.
And there are puzzle pieces and kind of a jigsaw pieces right.
And, you know, what you see is the dad has these pieces kind of take it out of him
that that build up to the child. Right.
And that the picture is actually of him taking a piece and basically giving
that to his son or daughter.
And so I think
like my yeah, my advice to them would be like, hey,
I am trying to take the best pieces of me,
pass them on to using and go have a better life than I did.
So I had that in like a very like,
you know, not, not practical, but kind of like a strategic right.
Like that would be the advice, right?
Of like, Hey, this is what I'm doing to you.
This is what your your role is with your kids.
Then I would say that the probably practical
piece of advice that I would be would be think for yourself,
you know, and so we we get so much pushed down on us,
especially these days with social media, politicians, etc., that,
like no one really teaches us like how to think.
They teach us what to think.
And so I want to really instill, you know, the skill.
It is a skill set, the skill set of discernment
to make the My children in that they know how to think of themselves.
They know how to uncover the truth and what's right and what's wrong,
and that they need to have the conviction to stand on on principle.
So that that would be a big one for me, would be, you know,
teaching them the the value discernment.
It's beautiful, man.
It's a great lesson.
All right let's shift to where can people find you.
So I'm going to pull up your website, but
why don't you go ahead and also just kind of narrate where else people can
can reach out and get connected with you and where they can follow you for sure.
So, man, you know that our website, it's something I got to get off my plate too.
But yeah, so the website is just the or the epic dad dot com.
Yeah.
You find out a little bit about our apparel, our supplements
and stuff are there
if you want to shop for supplements on Amazon
we've got them there as well as a sold out you know it's just shitty site
but it'll get better I promise guys as we grow
and then too
Yeah man that was the best seller for sure.
Where can you guys connect with me?
It's just integrates the best place.
So just at the epic Jacko on Instagram, I'm
very active there on social media.
If you asked me a DM, it'll be me responding.
I don't have a team responding for me or anything.
Yes, you can connect there and in our link and buy it.
We've got links to all of our resources, right?
So whether it's to our community, whether it's to our supplements,
whether to our podcast,
like whatever we have right is right there at your fingertips.
And like I said, if you want to reach out, I'm more than happy to help.
I am. I am not the epic dad, right?
That's the ideal that we're all striving towards.
So I may not have an answer for you, but but I will
I will search and find an answer for you to help provide value on your journey
to be a better father.
I love a dream well, hey, man,
I want to just thank you for coming on, being real, being raw.
Thanks for being a warrior in our community, not just in uniform
and standing for your principles and kind of living that example.
So I think a lot of people can be inspired by what you're doing and,
you know,
kind of take it
and hopefully carry on in their little spheres of influence as well.
So just appreciate you appreciate your your heart for dads
and wanting to build better for our kids.
And with that, we'll say enough talk dads.
Let's get Kleiman.
We'll see you in the next episode.
Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Present Fathers podcast.
Make sure that you subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Spotify
to catch all of our amazing.
We will see you in the next one.